This has been one of the most enduring images of this entire debate. It appeared in the very first Daily Kos posting on the controversy, on August 30th, 2008. The fact that so much stock was put into this picture and Bristol's "baby bump" was very unfortunate. When the dating of the photo was challenged - successfully - mainstream media en masse backed off from the story, leaving, in my opinion, many extremely valid questions about Sarah Palin's spring 2008 pregnancy unanswered and ignored.Just recently, including in comments here on this blog and in other places, the debate about this photo has rekindled. AGAIN. A common tactic has been to compare the photo to photos absolutely known to be taken at Sarah Palin's inauguration on January 19, 2007. Many people have stated categorically that the children - Piper in particular - look younger there, than in the "mystery" photo. And since the photo in question is obviously taken in the fall or early winter (no leaves on the trees) this means it must have been taken fall 2007. If that date is accurate, potentially Bristol Palin could already have been in the early stages of pregnancy.
One item that has been stated about this picture is that it was published in several places, and then after Sarah Palin's nomination as VP, the dates were changed. It is hard to keep up with all of these allegations though web pages have definitely been changed. I originally stated that I felt that the photo could not be conclusive because, last fall, at this link , the Anchorage Daily News had a reprint of an article. Several months ago, it contained this picture in which the Palin family is clearly wearing the same clothing as in the other shot:
The link also contained the information that the story was originally published on 10/23/07, proving that the photo had to be taken on or before 10/23/07. Now, this page has been changed, and this photo is gone from the ADN link. Now, the information is that the story was originally published on 10/23/06. More sneakin' around?I don't know why the story was changed and the picture removed but we have located this additional photo from the same shoot.
Todd's plaid shirt is clearly visible here and inside the house, the lighting is the same, as is Gov. Palin's sweater, hair, glasses and jacket.
This last photo allows us to date the entire shoot definitively to the fall of 2006. Why? Because Todd Palin is wearing a red Palin/Parnell campaign button. Upon enlargement, it is easy to see. And, unless one wants to go to ludicrous extremes (such as Todd was just so proud of this button he kept it on his jacket for a whole year) this dates the photo to at some point during the campaign, prior to the election. In spite of the "suspicious" date change on Anchorage Daily News, I believe that the date of 10/23/06 is likely for the shoot. (Or perhaps a day or two before... 10/23/06 is the day the ran the article initially, apparently.)
There are many compelling reasons to believe that Gov. Palin faked a pregnancy in spring of 2008 and at least some reasons still pointing to Bristol Palin being pregnant simultaneously.
The "green sweater" photograph of Bristol Palin was taken in the fall of 2006 and is not one of them.
377 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 377 of 377If you look at B's hands, there's a shadow between the arms and her belly. As if part of her baby bump has been photoshopped out. It's implausible that her arms would be resting in mid air. So she was probably even bigger than is shown in the photo. These people are such liars.
Windy City Woman asks:
Couldn't Bristol have been wearing a fake tummy in the Olberman video?
Anything is possible, of course, but it looks like a real baby belly to me. She sticks out for the length of her torso and a bit on the sides and sways her back. Her clothing is tight and should show any straps or padding. (Her chest does not look like a sofa bolster, however.)
If this video was shot Oct.12 then Tripp could have been born by now. She looks at least 6 mos. along. On the other hand, she could just be showing more and sooner if this is her second pregnancy in a row.
LondonBridges said,
"If Sarah is talking about herself, this could be an indication that she could have had a miscarriage. If so, this would make perfect sense in the context of Dr. CBJ's pre-election eve letter, which noted that Sarah has had five (5) pregnancies."
The letter explicitly says Palin had a pre-term delivery at 35 weeks in 2008. So I don't think if Sarah miscarried, say between Willow and Piper, that would get the good doctor off the hook.
Janice Mason was the executive secretary/scheduler who resigned in early January. Shortly thereafter the fun, A Day In The Governor's Office piece surfaced. What luck, Sarah had been grooming and bribing Britta for the job. She must feel pretty certain, that after all the perks Sarah has gotten her, she won't turn on her. That, and that she is/was dating Track, almost makes her a "family member," I say that in the Manson family sense, not a good way! Just another Palin appointment/firing worth looking at. I also read how her second Legislative Director, John Bitney was praised for a job well done by SP, only to be canned days later, in many people's humble opinion, because she found out he was having an affair with the Palin's close friend (part of a couple that were having marital troubles also, perhaps unbeknownst to SP/TP.) Bitney and that woman are now married. Just typical of SP's "Watch Your Back Hiring/Firing Policy."
To re-read that fun piece, about how hard SP works for her people, read it on Andrew Halcro's blog, andrewhalcro.com, entitled, "A Day In The Life..."
The Walt Monegan firing was another example of her WYB policy. BTW, he had also warned her of the hard times ahead for the remote villages, back in October, I believe.
Anyway, just love that she won't tolerate people not following the law, but her hubby and others who have now been found in contempt don't even get a slap on the hand?
I could go on, but you get my drift...
Enjoy your weekend,
penny
"A courageous person is anyone who loses a child and can still get out of bed in the morning."
i immediately read this as an implied shout out to the parents of people who've died in military service.
i guess it reveals itself to be a brilliantly crafted political phrase, since it conjured up different associations in many of us. i wonder who wrote it for her? it's also very interesting as it sort of implies that to be a candidate for true courage you must be a parent -guess those of us who haven't reproduced for whatever reason are out, and octo-mom is in.
The letter explicitly says Palin had a pre-term delivery at 35 weeks in 2008.
*************
I don't have the letter in front of me but "Palin" could mean Bristol "Palin."
I could have said, "Sarah," "The Governor," or "Sarah Palin," but the words were carefully chosen.
Ann Hedonia said...
If you look at B's hands, there's a shadow between the arms and her belly. As if part of her baby bump has been photoshopped out. It's implausible that her arms would be resting in mid air. So she was probably even bigger than is shown in the photo. These people are such liars.
Ann, are you speaking of the Oct. 12 WalMart checkout photos on Patrick's flickr? Those are stills from video. Can video even be Photoshopped? I saw the video on Countdown last night and didn't notice anything hokey, like arms resting mid-air.
I expected her to look smaller in early October, since I think Bristol had Trig in April and wasn't 5 mos. along at the RNC. So if anything they'd Photoshop her bigger.
Penny in Paradise,
Do you know whether Britta Hanson dropped out of college to be Palin's fulltime executive secretary? That would be bad.
I think the video on KO's website is really interesting for watching the body language between Sarah and Bristol with Trig.
In that little exchange where Bristol goes to take Trig and Sarah shakes her head no - Bristol steps back, crosses her arms and does a slow nod - which to me shows resentment.
It looks to me like Sarah is aware of the camera on her and doesn't want to hand the baby off - notice the way she shakes her head no and then cuts her eyes to the left as if to say - look who's watching.
By the way, hello from Georgia. I am a long time reader but first time poster.
KaJo, A couple of blog-chapters back you said SP had not claimed to be Trig's bio-Mom, but i think she did, here, at 0:20. Not at first, though, as far as I recall. My impression all along has been that her words earlier were consistent with her being the adoptive Mom.
I DID write to Keller, emboldened by Alex. I linked to this graphic, cc'd Sally Quinn and The New Yorker magazine. I immed got back a courteous form email acknowledging receipt from The NYer, but nothing from anyone else. I think it sank like a stone in a muddy pond.
Ohio mom, great post. I agree 100% with all your points, but I neverthless wrote to Keller.
I just want to say, re the working Mom of a special needs child: What's wrong with leaving all options open for a woman, as we do for a man, and letting each individual Mom and family decide whether the Mom belongs in a high-stakes pressure-cooker job or not. Sure it's great for a Mom (and/or a Dad) to stay home with a special-needs child, but some families just cannot afford it. And one thing about special needs: BRING MONEY!
I have a special-needs child.
Another issue there is that a time can come where the parent is NOT the best one to guide the child. A tough, tough decision. I made it because I thought I had to send my child to a special place in order to save that life. I wasn't good enough to succeed. It was agony. Now two years later I can say my child has THRIVED! Loves me way more fully because all the problems don't get in the way like they did. My child has made huge, wonderful progress. I could not have done this myself. BUT: very expensive, almost beyond belief.
So I would never second-guess another Mom's choices about her work, whether at home or for pay. That part does not bother me about SP: it might be that the very best thing she can do for her family is to bring in the bucks. Anyway, whatever I would think, she is legally entitled to make those decisions for herself, and not only legally entitled -- I say it's like abortion: a very tough choice with lots of HARD trade-offs and confusing criss-cross issues, but the very best person to make that choice is the person herself.
But I'm in agreement with each of the comments about why no socks? why no stroller? why not a more caring-seeming stance on SP's part? There are a lot of other issues re being a good Mom that are entirely apart from big-time job vs full-time Mom. And I'm not wild about what I see SP doing. Still, it's none of my business.
BUT: how she presented herself to the voters, whether she lied, is very much our business.
The Palin clan has made "Personality Parade" (celeb questions & answers) in Sunday's Parade Magazine (Feb. 8, 2009).
Question:
I'm curious about Gov. Sarah Palin's daughter Bristol, her fiance Levi, and their new son, Tripp. Are they on welfare?
Answer:
"Neither Bristol Palin nor Levi Johnston is on welfare," the governor's spokeswoman tells us. but Levi, 18, recently quit his job as an electrical apprentice after it was disclosed that he lacked the required high school diploma. He's now studying for that diploma while making plans to wed Bristol, 18, who's taking correspondence courses.
Any mention of Tripp in the answer was conspicuously absent!
Every day brings some interesting news.
Now we have some excellent views on the pregnant Bristol in October, which is a novelty. And not "still pictures", but a newsclip, so one should not waste too much time thinking whether it has been manipulated - it's obvious that no manipulation took place here.
The fact is that Bristol looked very, very pregnant on the 12 October 2008. Here are some screenshots I took from this clip which was shown during Keith Olbermann's "special comment":
http://tinyurl.com/bb3jmz
http://tinyurl.com/c7gpea
http://tinyurl.com/c2l9jl
http://tinyurl.com/c3sdza
Do I believe that Bristol was highly pregnant in October 2008? Yes I do. These pictures are conclusive IMO. I don't think that it's helpful to see a conspiracy in "everything". Reality is usually quite simple. If we question absolutely everything, even if the proof is right in front of our eyes, we will create a huge cloud of "mist" of which we won't be able to see through.
It was mentioned here before that it's actually very interesting that Bristol had a quite a massive baby bump while 6 1/2 months pregnant. This big bump also conforms nicely with the old and only real pregnancy picture which we have of Sarah Palin, and which was provided by her family to the Associated Press - this one:
http://tinyurl.com/deuwk7
The Palin women obviously have pretty striking baby bumps - nothing wrong with that - babies need some space after all ;-)
So how did SP look while about 6 -7 months pregnant?
Well...
for example like this:
http://tinyurl.com/d69jen
http://tinyurl.com/bf8jn8
http://tinyurl.com/amvc9x
http://tinyurl.com/cbz434
Huh? I wonder where poor Trig found some breating space in those pictures!
I believe that the answer is that Trig was in a different belly ;-)
I also believe that Tripp has already been born.
Multiple reports now confirm that there is actually a major row between the Palin family and the family of Levi and Mercede Johnston. THIS report by Gawker...
http://tinyurl.com/a2m4dl
...has just been confirmed in a new article by the National Enquirer, which can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/d6gabs
The main issue between those families is that nobody apart from Levi is allowed to come near Tripp. Mercede and Sherry Johnston are not welcome in the Palin home any more. This has now been confirmed by multiple sources.
As I said, interesting news every day!
I also believe that Tripp is held back deliberately by SP from the public, because the connection to Sherry Johnston is a major embarassment for SP. Sherry Johnston will most likely receive a hefty punishment (in the Alaskan sentencing guidelines it is mentioned that several years imprisonment are recommended for this type of felony). The jury trial for Sherry Johnston will be on the 23 and 31 March, I don't think that has been mentioned here before.
Please note that the statements above are just my personal opinions.
Patrick (Research assistant PD)
I have never posted before, but have been reading this blog since I discovered it on Mudflats.
I just watched the KO wal-mart video, and Bristol looks like a mama who wants her baby back. She crosses her arms so she does not reach out for her son. I did it many times( especially as a new mom) when you are positive the person holding you baby( even if it is your mother) is not doing it right or is somehow going to hurt/drop your little one.
FWIW, no one in Alaska uses strollers. We bought one to use in the airport and on trips to lower48, but at home it is just in the way.
Too bad Trig & Tripp were not among those California octuplets. We'd know everything about them.
I just read that the identity of Nadya Suleman (mother of the litter of 8) was revealed when a neighbor tipped off the media.
Don't the Palins have any neighbors who can do the same?
Does anyone know if Track's girlfriend and Sarah's executive secretary, named Britta Hanson, is related to Brad Hanson, who was named by the National Enquirer as having had an affair with Sarah while he was Todd's business partner?
Britta graduated from high school with Track. Brad is on the Palmer City Council. She could be his daughter. If so, small world.
The affair story lacked a credible source. I heard it came from one of Trooper Wooten's relatives. Some source said the affair was "never consumated." Why would the Enquirer publish a story about a non-affair affair, but pass on an alleged fake pregnancy and false birth announcement?
43 days since Tripp is said to have been born.
penny in paradise wrote:
...he had also warned her of the hard times ahead for the remote villages, back in October, I believe.
It was much earlier:
On July 12 departing Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan wrote a letter to state officials asking them to pay special attention to the looming crisis in rural Alaska. (Palin fired him in July 11)
I guess I'm another Doubting Thomas, re: the recently unearthed 10/12/08 video of Bristol (sorry, lurking multi-alias person most recently seen at Digg, if that makes me even more of a nut in your eyes).
There's some peculiar lines underneath Bristol's sweater at the back of her hips -- right where the bottom edge of the famous brand-name Empathy Belly would be.
And if you go back and look again at the picture of the Empathy Belly, you can see that there are no heavy buckles or straps on the backside, just "3 extra-wide velcro straps" that can be disguised quite nicely by an adhesive felt pad if necessary.
The weight of the brand-name Empathy Belly will by its nature and construction cause the wearer to stand in the typical cantilevered pose of a pregnant woman.
I wish I had the photo-examining software our investigator used...
Even without it, put me down as still skeptical.
I am afraid that the longer the MSM delays in finding the facts of the case the less interest there will be in the public's mind.
Many well known politicians have committed some dastardly acts which have gone without comeuppance for so long that it hardly seems worth the effort to
open up old grievances. Think of GWB's AWOL in the
National Guard, McCain's probable incendiary action on the USS Forester, JFK's multitude of liasons.
For SP to fake a pregnancy to cover for her teenage daughter might be considered by some to be a noble act, and the convoluted scenarios arising from that one intention are now more pitiful and embarrassing to relate--pathetic, even.
It is pretty apparent that SP can't handle her children and is not handling her state too well at the moment either. If our group cannot raise some
MSM attention to the "Deception" we might just hang on needlessly. Bristol is not a public figure and might justifiably eschew any publicity for her
current pregnancy and delivery or non-delivery.
Surely, the Enquirer must have an ear to the ground!
So I'm just writin' in to ask:
--Why does Daschle have to be dumped after a lifetime of admirable service over a tax problem, and SP gets to keep her hoax out of the MSM? (I reluctantly agree 100% that it's time to draw the line on illegal activities by high gov't officials. Thank you, President Obama, even though it sure is inconvenient to draw it right there -- and let some of the earlier picks go through. And dump some people whose expertise we badly need. But I agree. And drawing the line is never convenient or completely fair. But it has to be done.)
--How come a stupid rumor like this (which is no one's business, esp not now, about a prominent figure who is not running for office) can become public, but MSM refuses to address a hoax of far greater import, because it concerns the ethics of an almost-president??? Who is still aiming (and being supported) for high public office? (Don't answer: I know why. That's why we are here on this blog: it ain't right. Right?)
This is just my rant du jour. Slightly OT, but not really.
Today's Parade newspaper insert has someone asking if Bristol, Levi, and Tripp are on welfare.
"'Neither Bristol Palin nor Levi Johnston is on welfare,' the governor's spokeswoman tells us."
Hmmm, spokeswoman didn't answer the question as to whether Tripp is on welfare. Does that mean he is on welfare, or isn't born yet?
I thought McAllister was Palin's spokesMAN. Must be more than one. Maybe Britta took this Q.
The answer goes on to say Levi is studying for his diploma and Bristol's taking correspondence courses, which could explain why no one has seen her showing up for class at Wasilla High, in addition to the fact that she can't be seen in public until after Tripp's born.
Audrey and other pregnancy experts,
can you guesstimate how far along Bristol looked on October 12?
When I was looking at this website today www.adn.com it looks like Trigs picture half way down on the right hand side under the title of New Alaskans. Post a picture of your baby.
It looks to me like Bristol had on the same device that SP had on in the Gusty photos. Go back to the RNC pics. I didn't see anything to compare with her this size. However, the date would make a difference. This photo opt was staged, I'm sure.
About Bristol's back being swayed because of the pregnancy. Sorry to say, but I noticed in the People Mag pictures, both girls didn't have very good posture. Especially compared to SP who stands erect like a general.
There were other pictures I saw where it looked to me like Bristol had on the square device. I remember wondering if Audrey had them photo shopped.
People questioned why SP didn't wear it all the time. Can you just imagine how cumberson wearing that could Be? I'll bet it was much easier to strap the other thing on.
I've said for months, SP did not give birth to Trig and I don't believe there is a Tripp.
"A courageous person is anyone who loses a child and can still get out of bed in the morning."
-------------------------
It made me wonder what she was referring to. I totally didn't get it.
Guess it very well could be referring to parents who have suffered the worst possible loss--that of a son or daughter. However, given the complete sefishness she has demonstrated, well, what can I say?
And LUNA: not having reproduced doesn't make you any less of anything, than those of us who have! HUGS to ya!
so this isn't SP, but it's about the new "power of blogging!" (and i think this is an open thread now anyway. no updates today, hope everything is ok for morgan on the farm and audrey's family!)
so ann coulter is being investigated for voter fraud, because of this: "Officials are responding to a formal complaint filed by Coulterwatch.com blogger Dan Borchers."
http://tinyurl.com/dbbhkc
proof that when we find something, the MSM and/or the law WILL listen.
wonder what will happen with this: "Todd Palin did not ignore his subpoena."
BUT-
"These ten people [including Todd] were subpoenaed to appear in person before the Legislative Council for questioning.
They didn’t.
They sued, arguing that the subpoenas weren’t valid.
They lost." -mudflats
http://www.themudflats.net/
onething
Now, here is another question that is puzzling me. I am sure I saw a picture of Trig some time back being held by Sarah or Todd, and he had blue eyes and light brown hair. But someone posted some pics of him yesterday, (showing that he has no simian crease in his hand), and that was a very dark eyed baby. So which is it?
Babies are born with blue eyes and their eyes change colour when they are a a few months old...
In response to the pregnant Bristol photo http://tinyurl.com/c9ol8a that Trig has bare feet again; and once Bristol has handed him to Sarah she keeps going around to check on him to see if he is ok - she seems concerned to see if he is ok being passed to Sarah.
I believe the video from Oct 12 is showing a pregnant Bristol around 7months along. Which means that Tripp was probably born on Dec 27th to Bristol and Levi.
I think other options should be explored instead of trying to make Britol the mother. Its just a dead end and keeps people off the real track of what SP did
London Bridges,
This is the CBJ letter:
http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/11/03/19/110308SHP.source.prod_affiliate.7.pdf
The last sentence in a paragraph using Governor Palin as the subject of several sentences, says, "She had four term deliveries in 1989, 1990, 1994, and 2000, and one pre-term delivery at 35 weeks gestation in 2008."
"She" refers to someone with five deliveries, which isn't Bristol.
Regarding a baby's eye color....
not all babies are born with blue eyes.
Hello B
I too thought about whether there was some sort of family relationship between Britta and Brad but so far my investigations point to the fact that there is not one.
Britta graduated from school at the same time as Track and as far as I am aware they are still a couple so I would suggest that mommy P has definitely been indulging in a little bit of nepotism.
BTW Hanson/Hansen are very common names in Alaska
Kathleen PD Research Assistant
Patrick,
I respect your opinions, and I agree Bristol was really pregnant Oct.12. The question is how pregnnat she was then.
Are you saying she looks 6 1/2 mos.along? That would mean she really was 5 mos. at the RNC. That would mean she couldn't have given birth to Trig on Apr. 18.
What is your current working theory (subject to change of course)?
Bristol is not Trig's mom,
or Trig was born in March,
or Bristol had Tripp around 2/1/9.
Anyone read the new National Enquirer article on the feud between Palin and the Johnstons? Any new info?
I find it hard to believe that Sarah would risk alienating these people if they knew the truth about Trig. Given that Bristol and Sadie were said to be friends mainly through Levi, and that the Johnstons are complaining that Levi is siding with the Palins, is it possible he kept them in the dark about Trig?
On the other hand, there is the puzzle of Sadie's "Triggy Bear" MySpace page. Is it possible Sarah thinks she can scare the Johnstons into keeping their mouths shut even while she treats them like trash? Perhaps so. The people in Alaska do seem to be in terror of the Backstabbing Barracuda. Sorta blows their whole tough frontiersmen image!
Maybe Alaskans should start wearing "Where's Tripp" buttons instead of "Where's Sarah" buttons. His existence is the only response SP ever gave to repudiate the rumour that Bristol is Trig's mother. Bristol looks so big around the middle in every photo I think it's fruitless to try to figure out how pregnant she looks in the October video. To me she looks smaller there than she did at the RNC.
A request for some of us who refer to articles (such as the one midnightcajun mentioned re: National Enquirer) in our comments:
If there's an online URL, could you provide the link, please? It'd save a lot of time for those of us who haven't read these articles you refer to...
I would like to share a very interesting article at www.commentarymagazine.com/ by Yuval Levin. He does not agree with our suspicions on the many problems of SP, but the article is an excellent analysis of the political climate in the US.
We are pretty mystified as to how so many people can manage to not think about the political consequences. I have observed the chat on TeamSarah and encountered bloggers on other sites. They seem to have cotton candy between their ears. And...they think we are, at the least, crazy.
Levin's article shows that the division is not blue vs. red. It is more complex. It also explains why McCain was unable to capitalize on the attention SP's nomination brought.
sandra in oregon
FWIW, here's a link to one woman's month-by-month pregnancy progress. She looks pretty typical in stature and 'showing'. Also, if this were Bristol's second, one would expect her to already be showing a fair bit at five months (Oct 12?).
http://tinyurl.com/ajqvka
B said:
Ann Hedonia said...
If you look at B's hands, there's a shadow between the arms and her belly. As if part of her baby bump has been photoshopped out. It's implausible that her arms would be resting in mid air. So she was probably even bigger than is shown in the photo. These people are such liars.
Ann, are you speaking of the Oct. 12 WalMart checkout photos on Patrick's flickr? Those are stills from video. Can video even be Photoshopped? I saw the video on Countdown last night and didn't notice anything hokey, like arms resting mid-air.
No, I was talking about the family photo that is at the beginning of this post. The one showing the "baby bump" and that nobody knows the date it was taken.
I am not an expert on genes but I always thought that two brown eyed people cannot have a blue eyed child. Period.
Todd Palin's eye color is blue. Brisol's eye color is brown.
Levi's eye color is brown.
What is the eye color for Trig?
Casa Calvo,
Two brown eyed parents can have a blue eyed child, if each parent has one recessive blue gene.
Bristol would have that recessive gene if Todd has blue eyes, since that means Todd has two blue genes and would have passed one on to Bristol.
Levi could have a blue gene too.
Many babies begin with blue eyes and their eyes change color during the first year or two.
If neither Todd nor Sarah had brown eyes, Trig couldn't either and still be their biological child. But if Bristol has brown eyes amd Todd has blue, as you say, then Sarah must have brown.
Trig's eyes don't tell us anything, whether brown or blue.
rmclement2001 said...[Tripp's] existence is the only response SP ever gave to repudiate the rumour that Bristol is Trig's mother. Bristol . . . looks smaller there than she did at the RNC.
Technically, it was a McCain aide rather than Sarah who said that Bristol was 5 mos. along and that the announcement was meant to counter the Trig rumor.
Bristol may look a bit smaller than at the RNC, but she looks tons more normal for a pregnant woman. I agree with those who think that under that tight gray dress Bristol wore an empathy bra and belly on top of her <5 mos. pregnancy for her night on stage with Levi and the Palins.
Blue eyes are from a recessive gene. If both browneyed people have a recessive blue gene 1/4 of the children have blue eyes.
sandra in oregon
FWIW, there is a photo of Sarah with a larger boy who is obviously not Trig -- he is older, has lighter and longer hair and blue eyes. I believe it may have been a child that someone handed to her at a rally. I am sure it is not Trig.
It is possible for two brown-eyed parents to have a blue-eyed child, if both parents carry the recessive blue-eyed gene.
The photos of Bristol in October do appear legitimate, and I believe she was pregnant (although we can't rule the empathy belly out yet). I do not think they are at all conclusive that she was as far as 7 months along, especially if she had already given birth once this year. I believe the jury is still out as to the birth of Tripp, and IMHO every day that goes by without proof of his birth becomes proof of his non-birth. Where are Tripp and Bristol -- it's now been 45 days and still no sign of either of them. That is downright weird, if they are the main proof that SP was pregnant last spring.
"Is it possible Sarah thinks she can scare the Johnstons into keeping their mouths shut even while she treats them like trash? "
Can she commute a sentence? I'm serious. I don't know what a governor can do to mitigate a criminal conviction.
CasaCalvo
Two brown eyed people can have a blue-eyed child.
Blue eyes are a recessive gene. Everyone has two genes for eye color. If someone has a brown eyed gene and a blue eyed gene, they will have brown eyes, but still carry the recessive blue eye gene. They could pass the blue eye gene on to a child and if another person like them also passes on the blue eyed gene, and the child has two blue eyed genes passed to it by the two brown eyed parents then the child can have blue eyes. You must have two recessive blue eye genes to have blue eyes.
Whoo!
Betsy said:
I am afraid that the longer the MSM delays in finding the facts of the case the less interest there will be in the public's mind.
I agree, except for the 'afriad' part.
The only person who brings it up is ... Sarah Palin. And does so over an over again.
The way a falsehood becomes a media 'fact' is the following:
1) A reputable organization 'M' makes a report which accurately attributes a factual statement made by a public figure. For example: "Famous Person said X."
2) Other reputable organizations repeat that report, sighting the M's story. Example: M reports X.
3) No other reputable media organization finds or reports any facts that directly contradict X.
4) Later reports of the incident site X as fact, since it had already been reported as fact and not contradicted.
5) Famous Person relies on X for all future questions, as in " M and other news organizations have already addressed this fact and confirmed it."
So SP's assertions are now 'facts' that MSM has accepted and feels no need to investigate further. Anyone who contradicts those 'facts' are conspiracy theory kooks (even my mother thinks so) and can be readily dismissed as such.
I guess nobody learned the lesson of the Emperor's New Clothes fable. Tax cuts always boosting the economy, Iraq has WMD, Kerry is an elitist because he wind-surfed. All media 'facts' that anyone who challenged is marginalized for doing so. On and on it goes.
I'll share will everyone that I have a plan. MSM's failure to report against the weight of evidence is their Achiles heal. The story is too good to ignore. Someone will want to publish it, so long as it is in the right form.
Dangerous
Thanks, Patrick, for the still picture links of Bristol. Indeed, she looks very pregnant.
Did you see the KTUU Video Taken Dec. 15, 2008? The Palins were going to church being held at the school because of the fire at the church.
That video would have been taken two months and three days after the Wal-Mart shots. I remember all the controversy on one of Audrey's threads about who was in the yellow jacket. I think it was the niece in the jacket.
Anyway, Bristol was in the group. She had a hand in each of her pockets pushing her jacket out in front of her. She saw the camera and broke away from the group and "ran like a deer into the school."
I thought, and so did other posters here, that she looked thinner than ever. Is there any way you can get stills from that video to study? Does anyone have a copy of the video?
Until we see Tripp and some kind of verification he was born (Dr., Hospital), yes, this is part of the deception.
Two brown eyed parents certainly can have a blue eyed child. They can each have a recessive blue eyed gene. If the child gets the two recessive genes, he will be blue eyed.
Also eye color is not really as Mendelian as people believe. There are grays, greens and hazels that can appear blue at times.
CasaCalvo -
Brown is dominant: B. Blue is the recessive gene: b. So two brown eyed people with the recessive blue-eyes gene (Bb and Bb) can have a blue-eyed child - the offspring possibilities are BB, Bb, Bb which are all brown, and bb). But two blue-eyed parents (both bb) cannot have a brown eyed child. Of course, a lot has been figured out about genetics since I took it - and it may be much more complicated than that...
:)
Casa Calvo: Two brown-eyed people can easily have a blue-eyed child. Because brown is dominant, each parent could be BRbl (one gene for brown, one for blue), giving them a 25% chance of having a blue-eyed offspring. It is very rare for two blue-eyed people to have a brown-eyed child, but it can happen.
Perhaps someone who understands the genetics better than I do can explain how two blue-eyed parents produce a brown-eyed child.
Thanks to everyone for filling me in on the eye color gene. I am in a family of all brown eyed people so it has never been an issue.
So for Trig to be a blue eyed child of brown eyed Bristol and brown eyed Levi both Bristol and Levi have to have at least one blue eyed parent. We know Todd is blue eyed and in the pictures of Sadie she looks blue eyed so they no doubt have a blue eyed parent.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Certainly Bristol looks definitely pregnant, but not "very, very" pregnant. I'd reserve that for the last couple of months. My guess is 5-6 months in the video. If she's 6 months, she's probably not Trig's mother.
The brown-eyed close-up baby photo someone posted here recently was of deep brown eyes, and they would not have ever truly appeared blue, as the light blue eyes I saw, and in which Trig was already some 5-6 months old.
Casa-
"I am not an expert on genes but I always thought that two brown eyed people cannot have a blue eyed child. Period."
No, it's the opposite. Two blue eyed people cannot have a brown eyed child. But brown eyed people have blue eyed children all the time. All they need is to carry the recessive gene. Bristol got hers from her father, and Levi's mother is blue-eyed. So one out of 4 of their children should be blue-eyed, statistically.
As Catherine said, genetics is not as simple as we were taught in school, because there are so many, many variables, and their interaction is not that clearly understood.
So, most of the time, the old rules we learned seem to work, but every once in awhile there is some anomaly -- maybe a mutation, maybe the expression of some complexity we know little about (like people with XXY or XXXY chromosomes or other rare configurations -- and you get maybe an albino, or 6 toes, or DS, or some other feature that seems to come out of nowhere. This is so clear when you read the cheap dog breeding books, where they print the same genetic boilerplate at the end of each breed's discussion. If it was that simple, it would be easy and predictable to breed a better dog, but of course it's not -- because of the huge complexity.
Plus, let's say you know ALL the parentage for 18 generations back in tracing some simple feature that seems very predictable, and out of the blue comes an inconsistent genetic expression: perhaps 15 generations back, someone's baby was fathered by someone other than the husband, or there was an illness that cause some genetic damage (or Geez maybe someone even faked an adoption and told no one) -- so now there's a whole new thread to the subsequent genetics.
It's been awhile since I had genetics, but 2 people with brown eyes can have children with brown or blue eyes, but 2 people with blue eyes can only have children with blue eyes.
I have hazel eyes and my husband has brown eyes. We have one child with blazing blue eyes and the other has dark chocolate brown eyes-- and they both have different hair color.
On www.adn.com under iron dog there is a pic of Sarah and Trig. Poor guy looks like he could use a beanie and warmer clothes. Go to picture #18.
Photos: Iron Dog start
here is a new pic of SP holding trig at the '09 iron dog opening on sunday. the race will finish in downtown fairbanks on the 14th, should be more pics then as well.
http://tinyurl.com/cq9v9t
remember on january 19, 2009 when SP was the first ever guest on the new glenn beck show? and she made a point in the interview to tell us he got glasses at 8 months old (mid december with his 4.18.08 b-day)? why is he again not wearing them? he also did not wear them in the pics from the filming of the superbowl ad.
the glenn beck interview caused an initial stir here because she seemed to say trig was 8 months old (not nine) in it. the quote was "here he's eight months old, he got glasses!" that is the only reason i remember or care about this (at first i thought she got trig's age wrong.) you can watch the interview here if you don't recall it (but it's a bit icky how much he loves her.)
http://tinyurl.com/985hhx
if she told the world he needs glasses i assume he does, shouldn't she put them on him? she had time to put her own sunglasses on.
p.s. morgan -i hope this comment passes muster :)
No problem at all, Luna. Statements backed up by observations are fine. Accusations backed up by gut feelings are not.
We try to be fair here, even to Sarah.
luna, Trig only needs glasses when he reads..
:-)
Trig probably wears his glasses at home. Then when he knocks them off they don't get lost. For once he seems awake and alert. He is definitely holding his head up.
But why did Palin take Trig out for a photo op in the extreme cold and wind? No one would fault her for leaving him inside until spring. Perhaps Tripp has been born and Bristol has her hands full?
For another take on Todd's Iron Dog racing, see Chris Kelly's article, "Sarah Palin's $159,050 Conflict of Interest" at Huffington Post.
B and others -- If Sarah did not deem it necessary to enhance her own bust to appear pregnant, why would Bristol do so? I'm not sure what was going on under the grey dress at the RNC, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't an "empathy bra".
Also, why do so many of you posters seem to accept that Trig was a preemie? Other than CDJ letter and Sarah's say so, we have no evidence of that. The reported birth weight, if accurate, is more like that of a full term infant. I think we should be careful about basing other suppositions on the supposition that the delivery was preterm.
Tully,
Just my speculation:
The bra piece of the empathy belly apparatus caused the real Bristol to be pushed up and look like a sofa bolster. That's what the various shadows and shapes on that gray dress looked like to me in the RNC photos. I agree the bolster wasn't just empathy bra.
Bristol wasn't necessarily wearing the same apparatus as Sarah had. Sarah tried to look just pregnant enough to get by. Bristol was trying to look clearly pregnant for the TV audience, enough to be ruled out as Trig's mom, and more pregnant than she was IMO.
Watching 'The View' this morning and noticed that Elizabeth Hasselbeck looked pregnant when walking to her seat. I googled her and sure enough she is pregnant. Due in August so that makes her about 4-5 months.
This is her 3rd pregnancy and she is definitely showing in this early stage. And guess, what? She had tight abs and tiny like SP.
SP was not pregnant with Trig. There is absolutely no way that she could have gone 7 months without showing (even with scarves) on a 5th pregnancy.
I wonder would Elizabeth agree with me. :-) She gets on my last nerve.
The naked truth is always chasing a well-dressed lie.
For the purposes of trying out a new theory, let's assume that Sarah, who always says she tells the truth, is, as she says, "Trig's (biological) mom.
I re-read Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson's carefully worded pre-election eve letter a few times and in the interest of fairness, we should attempt to reconcile the possibility that Trig is the bio son of Sarah with other known facts.
During the course of this post, REMEMBER: Sarah IS Trig's mom.
Fact #1: Sarah refuses to show us Trig's birth certificate.
Explanation #1: The only logical reason could be that Todd's name is not listed on Trig's birth certificate. Alaska does not follow the Lord Mansfield Rule which states neither partner in a marriage can deny paternity to a child born during wedlock. Todd could have made an agreement with Sarah that he would keep quiet about the father's identity, but that he wanted the father's name left blank on the birth certificate.
Fact #2: In Texas, Todd referred to the yet unborn Trig as a "Fish Picker." This doesn't seem like a term of endearment. Why? If Todd were not the father, he would be less than overjoyed at the prospect of Sarah giving birth.
Fact #3: Why the Wild Ride? Two possibilities: a. To better control the possibility of Todd not being the father being leaked in some faraway hospital/state. b. Sarah may have, at least unconsciously, wished for a miscarriage, given the paternity issue.
Fact #4: Sarah hid her pregnancy. Why? The paternity issue was an embarrassing situation which would have ruined her political career.
Fact #5: Sarah clearly made it look like she was faking her pregnancy. She wore scarves and randomly added pads and cushions to confuse the issue. Even though she was pregnant she wanted people to think it really wasn't her child. Why? In case the child looked nothing at all like Todd.
Fact #6: Sarah wanted people to think Bristol was pregnant and she was covering for her teenage daughter. She made public statements that it wasn't true that Bristol WAS PREGNANT. This served to direct attention to Bristol.
Fact #7 Bristol was sent away from home during Sarah's pregnancy. She was the oldest child living at home during a stressful period between Sara & Todd and Sarah didn't want the savvy Bristol figuring out what was going on, or even that Todd was out of town during Trig's conception.
Fact #8: Sarah didn't gain a lot of weight during Trig's gestation. Again, she both wanted to hide her pregnancy and unconsciously wanted it to go away, so she likely sacrificed nutrition during this time.
Todd seems amused by this whole ssituation. I don't recall reading about Todd defending Sarah on this issue. Has Todd ever been seen out in public with Trig alone?
Have a better explanation IF Sarah really is Trig's bio mother? Let's hear it!
Sarah can't have it both ways! If we say Sarah: We believe you! Will she still be squirming?
A couple of cute pics of Todd and Trig, at the Iron Dog Safety Expo Jan 31 in Wasilla:
http://tinyurl.com/irondogexpo1
http://tinyurl.com/irondogexpo2
Notes:
1. No glasses on Trig
2. More pics of Palins wearing coats indoors. :-)
3. Expo paid for in part with grant from State of Alaska.
4. That's why Wasilla really needed that big expensive sports arena!
5. If Todd is at all ambivalent about Trig being a member of the family, he sure is hiding his feelings well in these pictures. (Sorry, LondonBridges...)
More on genetics, and why this is not a fruitful avenue for us to pursue in terms of proof of anything.
For the rules at school -- the blue/brown examples that people have discussed here: They would be true if that's as far as it went, so it is useful to teach that, so students can understand the general concept. But remember that until recently we knew little about our genes -- we knew only the EXPRESSION of those genes. And if you imagine a person who is blue-eyed, and who wears contact lenses that make him have brown eyes, you can see that factors other than genetics can affect the EXPRESSION of those genes.
One example would be if you have the genetic make-up that gives you blue eyes, and some other genetic issue makes you be born without eyes at all, or if your eyes are damaged into nonexistence by some awful early accident, then we would not have been able (before DNA testing and today's understanding) to tell what your genetic inheritance was.
Or, a person's blue/brown inheritance can be affected (but rarely, otherwise we would not see these "rules" for blue/brown eye color inheritance) by some other gene (like: a person who has each eye a different color: clearly the blue/brown rule was complicated by some other factor. Or if you have a spot of another color on your eye.
Losing one's hair via cancer and its therapy sometimes results in the regrowth of that your being different, like curly, or more fine, or more coarse. Perhaps as the result of some mutation resulting from either the illness or the therapy? What if a person had some such illness that altered the EXPRESSION of a gene early in life -- we might not know the illness had happened, but we see the characteristics and could reasonably think those were the orginal genetic inheritance, expressed in the usual way.
I'm just saying that, while the rules we learned, and that we can apply in a non-precise way to eye color and characteristics of sweet peas, are correct as far as they go, they do not go nearly far enough to become proof in an individual situation, or proof in any legal sense, since it is clear that there is so much we do not know.
This is different than DNA testing, which tells what IS, in a given genetic sample, and then allows a conclusion that 99.999% of the time, this means that xxxxxx would be true. Note they never say 100%.
So I do think this is a blind alley in our effort here: if we could for sure identify eye color for all parties, it would still not give us anything that is conclusively true.
Geez, we have the photos: they are conclusive! But no one cares. How much less anyone would care if there was a .00001% chance that our conclusion was not true! So both in practical terms and in theoreticsl terms, this is a blind alley.
London bridges:
Todd seems to have as much if not more concern for Trig as Sarah. I'm having trouble with your hypothesis. It could explain the reason they didn't want a birth certificate from Texas, but Todd would have to be an Oscar quality actor to go along with the rest of it.
Why would she want to deceive the public with this? Certainly Todd would know if she was trying to disguise her pregnancy as a pseudo-pregnancy. Why would she want to have her daughter appear to be pregnant when she had been so strong on abstinence only.
I don't think she was pregnant last spring. It just doesn't fit. But thank you for trying another idea.
At this point SP may actually believe she was pregnant and she is hoping that in time the speculation will go away. Certainly she's causing enough other problems to make this a tiny blip on the screen.
sandra in oregon
B, you remarked @ 6:56 AM, "why did Palin take Trig out for a photo op in the extreme cold and wind? No one would fault her for leaving him inside until spring."
That made me smile. That's EXACTLY the reason so many pro-Sarah defenders have put forth as to why no one's seen Bristol or Tripp.
Seems to me that if the Palinistas were to be consistent, they'd notice the disconnect between the care of Trig, and that for Tripp.
Hi -- Lurking since sometime in September. Hey!
I would like to make a comment about why we haven't seen Tripp. I believe we are ment to forget he exists (if he does). As a woman who is building her reputation, and enjoying it, on being "hawt"--being a granny is not sexy. I apologize to those of you who are grandmothers.
If Gov. Palin's hotness factor goes down, does she have any political capital left? You've seen those Palinbots. You've seen them slather. Yuck.
Being a granny many times over will decimate her ability to attract her core.
My word is "catio!" Oh well.
I have been following this story from the day I picked up a magazine at a Dr.'s office and read the story of the wild ride. I want to thank Audrey and crew for the enormous amount of work they have accomplished in their quest for the truth.
Although, I read the blog and comments almost daily this is my first post. I just had a thought regarding the absence of any pictures of Tripp. Maybe he really was born when said but perhaps he was pre-term. He needed to be born by a certain date and full term to prove that Bristol couldn't have given birth in April. Pictures of a tiny preemie wouldn't be worth a hill of beans to Sarah and would cause more questions.
I also wanted to comment that here in Florida too we have problems with family usage of the state planes also.
Yesterday and today's headlines show Lt. Gov. Jeff Kottkamp (as well as others) as owing the state for using the planes for commuting and generally hauling family members around.
http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20090209/BREAKINGNEWS/90209046/-1/SEVENDAYS
At least our state has an accounting procedure to bill for this use.
OT, I know,
LondonBridges -
i think the term "fish picker" just means a fisherman, as in one who "picks" fish from the sea as a farmer might pick tomatoes from a field.
if you google it you'll find a few references by people in the fishing industry self-identifying as "fish pickers" (i did this a while back and remember some guy's blog, amongst others). it doesn't seem to be a term of disparagement.
something else i find interesting is that todd self-identifies in the press as "a fisher man" never "an oil man" -perhaps he thinks fishing has a folksier ring. i remember reading/hearing (i can't remember) a quote from him where he was essentially describing what a regular. down-to-earth gal SP is by saying how she "picks fish out here with me" in the summers.
-the palins do a have a commercial fishing interest on bristol bay, so she should have been DOUBLY aware that the very poor season last year could spell a winter crisis for the rural villages like emmonak (CNN has finally picked up this story!).
"Sarah Palin backs out of CPAC; Team Sarah hardest hit"
(OK, I made up that second part)
From US News:
http://tinyurl.com/bkxuvo
Breaking Palin News (possibly off-topic but who knows) : http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com
/2009/02/palins_ag_a_key_trooper-gate_ally_resigns.php
Talis Colberg, major Palin supporter and Alaska's Attorney General, resigns!!!!
Been away for awhile…this is to PhotoOp: Welcome to the discussion! This is to all who are seeking the truth: LOOK AT THE JOHNSTON/PALIN RELATIONSHIP!!! To Patrick and the other photo sleuths: do the black slacks and jacket look the same in the Alaska Stock pictures (after Piper) as some of the other Trig pregnancy pictures of SP? The video of SP and Bristol, in my opinion, that is from October 2008 at that Wal-Mart! Audrey, please keep the faith, the truth is out there!!!
Just saw over at the Anchorage Daily News where they announced Talis Colberg resigned.
He was SP's Attorney General and was Blago's roomate at Pepperdine.
This is a surprise because I think Colberg circumvented a few laws for her and they were close. I'll bet they mutually agreed on this and I'd sure like to see the severance package.
Sandra sez:
Todd seems to have as much if not more concern for Trig as Sarah. I'm having trouble with your hypothesis. It could explain the reason they didn't want a birth certificate from Texas, but Todd would have to be an Oscar quality actor to go along with the rest of it.
Why would she want to deceive the public with this? Certainly Todd would know if she was trying to disguise her pregnancy as a pseudo-pregnancy. Why would she want to have her daughter appear to be pregnant when she had been so strong on abstinence only.
*************
It would be the lesser of several evils. Todd makes a lot of money as a result of Sarah, including the motorized sled races, and has the potential to become a millionaire as a result of her fame, career and books. Todd could have had an affair or two of his own over time. With moral double standards do you think an woman pol could keep a political career while having an out of wedlock child? This could not come out under any circumstances were it true. Sarah could easily justify that she really tried to squash the Bristol pregnancy story. Thus it wasn't her fault. While you may not buy my hypothesis, don't distort it. thanks!
I never suggested that Sarah was trying to deceive Todd re the pregnancy. She just wanted to deflect attention away from her pregnancy, the birth certificate any way she was able to. Throwing Bristol into the mix also would help to deflect the paternity issue.
As time progressed and the National Enquirer backed off the affair story, Sarah was able to re-claim Trig by announcing Bristol's pregnancy.
If Sarah is Trig bio mom, this is as logical as any possibility given all the other weird stuff that has transpired.
Sandra, thank you for the link to this very interesting article. A good read!
I think Levin misses three points, though.
1. SP's nearly incomprehensible statements too much of the time which leave one in a WTF???!-type daze. I don't think the lack of an overarching vision would have been as much of a big problem if it had not been accompanied by SP statements like this:
'
"My concern has been the atrocities there in Darfur and the relevance to me with that issue as we spoke about Africa and some of the countries there that were kind of the people succumbing to the dictators and the corruption of some collapsed governments on the continent, the relevance was Alaska’s investment in Darfur with some of our permanent fund dollars."
This is from a Dick Cavett column entitled "The Wild Wordsmith of Wasilla."
2. The issue of anti-corruption is hard to be against. Who could possibly favor a pro-corruption stance? At least not out loud. But one can dislike an anti-corruption candidate who is in fact corrupt herself, as we suspect in so many of the Palin-gates.
In other words, could there be a little hypocrisy here in the anti-corruption platform? Could it be it's the hypocrisy people didn't like rather than the folksiness and lack of intellectual jargon?
I have to admit to a respect for the intellectual elite -- but not slavish adoration. I personally liked SP's midwest twang, and I do like the Will Rogers kind of folksy common sense that shoots a big hole in intellectual pretension. I revere a can-do person. I disdain the Ivory Tower aspect of the Ivy League.
But as I try to understand the details of what President Obama is doing in the limited time I have to study it (regular living DOES take such a big chunk of time away from studying presidential concerns!), I feel comfortable that a smart, well-educated man is doing our work for us. A man it would be hard to snooker with a lot of high-falutin' language of the Harvard type. A man who can explain what's important and how he will act regarding it, in language we can all understand. Like he did with the race talk, a topic that might compete with our economic woes in terms of complexity, entrenched preconceptions, spin-doctoring, importance, and diversity of opinion. Yet Obama's race talk was very clear and healing, revealing a man of wisdom and good will. I am hoping he can make good decisions on topics I don't understand well (econ collapse and race relations among many others). Better decisions that I would.
I have no foundation to think that McCain and Palin could make good decisions on those issues, since I never thought they understood them well. Because they never spoke understandably about them IMHO.
So I think there's less than meets they eye there, in Levin's saying intellectual disdain of populists is such a big factor in our political life.
3. If you read Levin's article in the firm belief that SP faked her pregnancy, it becomes almost a parody of itself! All those fine points pale beside the elephant in the room, which is this hoax.
Before I was 100% convinced of the hoax, there was so much else that didn't fit, making all THAT -- collectively yet somewhat vaguely -- into the huge elephant in the room. That overwhelmed the finely wrought points, true points, that Levin makes.
By the way, Hi Amy; I suspect from the sound of your posts that you are not the earlier Amy who was here for about 6 posts and then disappeared? Welcome aboard.
@Diana (1:46)
I think you may have something...regarding Trig being born in March.
The chef at the governor's mansion was fired 06-29-07 to save money per Stapleton in the ADN; however, the chef was still on the state's payroll. Saving money...what was the real reason?
Maybe Trig was born between March 14-27, 2008. I think those are the dates that Palin stayed in the Anchorage/Wasilla area.
Just thinking....
I only brought up the eye color because I was confused about what Trig really looks like. It had nothing to do with any evidence for anything whatsoever.
And I think my question was answered, that the blue eyed baby was not Trig but a baby she was holding.
Interesting...SP claimed on the campaign trail that parents of Special Needs children would have an advocate in the White House if she was elected VP. Seems to me she can't even fulfill that promise in her own little town of Wasilla.
Read article below:
Clinic for special-needs children to shut down
http://www.adn.com/life/health/story/686257.html
Just something that I find interesting: the tabloid papers, blogs etc pick up a lot of feuding between the Palin and Johnston families. Families usually don’t feud for no good reason. I do not believe for one second that all this feuding is over “Tripp”.
mdlw56, I think you are suggesting the chef could have fathered Trig, but the chef is a woman. Daily Kos suggests she left the Gov's Mansion because the Palins were rarely there to cook for:
www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/7
/155428/5188/695/590184
@Truth Patrol, 6:30 a.m. 2/11
& 2:04 p.m. 2/10,
I have only been to Wasilla once, and am not able to go up there now to nose around.
If what you infer is true re: the Palin-Johnston feud, perhaps during Sherri Johnston's March 2009 trial we will learn more about the shared histories of the two families.
Do you think any of these issues you allude to so elliptically could be found by browsing, say, old issues of the Wasilla FRONTIERSMAN?
Or, if YOU can enlighten us further, please do!
@B 7:05
Was aware of the chef being a lady, but why in late June instead of directly after the legislative session?
The spokesperson stated that the chef was fired, and money was being saved, but the chef was actually reassigned to other posts until the winter session. Why even mention "fired" or "money" when the chef was merely reassigned? Maybe the governor just wanted the chef out of the house so when she arrived in Juneau with the kids, the chef would not observe a pregnant daughter later on. Who knows?
I think the newborn Sadie was holding looks younger than the one that the grandparents presented to the cameras at the hospital. Could it be possible for the baby to have been born in March instead? If the baby is Levi's, could that explain Levi quitting his senior year in March for the north slope rather than waiting until after the baby was supposedly born in April? The wild ride could have been staged to present the baby at a time convenient for the governor. No hospital birth announcement.
Does anyone know the actual date of that picture of Sadie and Trig? Or actually when it was posted? I know it showed up on August 31, but why only newborn pictures of Trig...not updated pictures of him when he was 6-weeks old; 2 months; 3 months; his first smile, etc.? Just wondering....
mdlw56,
We don't know when the picture of Sadie and Trig was taken. We do know it was taken in the Palin kitchen.
I agree Trig looks older in the photo with the Heaths on 4/18 or so at MatSu. His face looks rounder and he is wearing the hat.
But look at Trig in the May 5 photos from the baby shower. He looks more like the Sadie photo than the Heath photo. So I don't think the Heath photo helps us pinpoint his DOB as earlier than 4/18.
As for the chef, I believe she was reassigned at the end of the school year. Until then the Palins lived in the mansion. The next year the girls were going to go to school in Wasilla and live at home. So the mansion was "abandoned" in June rather than April when the legislative session ended. No chef was needed.
To: Tully, 2-10-09, 6:58 a.m.
I can't speak for others but I personally don't believe Trig was a preemie. On Dec. 23, in Audrey's blog "More Material Mysteriously Disappears", I posted a comment to that effect.
My reason concerned Trig's weight. How could we know he actually weighed 6 lbs. 2 ounces?
Everything is SP's word which by now is very questionable.
The amount of Trig's weight announced reminded me of how the RNC said Bristol was "five" months PG. Just enough, in both cases, to just slip by.
My theory was Bristol had a full term baby over seven pounds but born a few days early. Hence, SP thought she could make the trip to Texas and get back in time.
Well, we all know how that ended!
re Theory that SP's absence from Juneau for 2 key weeks in 08 is the window that Trigg was born in.
From what I have read, SP was absent from Juneau A LOT during the '08 90 day legislative session. Per Mudflats, there was a "Where's Sarah" campaign because she was so infrequently in Juneau. The Junueau Empire has written about how she has essentially moved the Governor's office & staff to Anchorage, unlike previous governors. And from what I've read this year, her attendance record hasn't been any better. So she obviously has plenty of non-Trigg reasons to not be in Juneau.
My verification word is "ancers"
Ginger said:
My reason concerned Trig's weight. How could we know he actually weighed 6 lbs. 2 ounces?
Everything is SP's word which by now is very questionable.
I agree that every stated fact should be questioned and verified if possible. Speculation continues unabated that Trig was born prior to the 'wild ride' of April 17-18, with posters drawing conclusions based on their own assertions that Trig 'looks' one way or another in the first published photos of him on April 18.
My point is you can't question SP's version while at the same time substitute your own opinion for fact. We can all agree that Trig was a very small infant, that may or may not have been a few weeks premature and that a 6 lbs., 2 oz. announced birth weight is consistent with a 5-week premature infant that might otherwise have weighed, say, 7 lbs. 10 oz. It might also be a full-term infant birth weight.
You can't validly infer unconfirmable facts from that confirmed birth-weight fact, any more than one can infer other facts based on opinions of an infant's appearance in a couple of pictures. But, please, enjoy the fantasy.
When evaluating various testimony by SP and others, consider whether there would be a good reason to lie about any particular element, and whether the assertion could be independently confirmed or not.
For example, nobody could independently confirm that she started 'leaking' fluid in Texas and 'expirencing contractions not different from the false labor she had experienced for months'. She's safe to make those assertions whether true or false. The problem is that it could be independently confirmed that she was or wasn't in labor during her wild ride back to Alaska. So her water breaking and unusual labor pains were not consistent with no distress during the flights.
Yet, her story was consistent with confirmable facts:
a) her leaving the conference in Texas abruptly;
b) surprise early appearance of Trig, which she had said would be mid-May, not mid-April;
c) heading straight to Mat-su for delivery.
Her story was inconsistent with these non-confirmable assertions:
a) Her labor pains were 'settling-down';
b) Feeling it was more important to give her speech than get checked by a medical professional;
c) Feeling compelled to return to Texas for what she thought would be an imminent birth.
Taken together, this mix of sometimes consistent and sometimes inconsistent confirmable and unconfirmable assertions has all the hallmarks of a speedily concocted cover story. Period. If Trig had been born weeks or even days earlier -- that is, prior to SP deciding to go to Texas -- her story would not have had these kinds of holes.
SP had no good reason tell the world she would deliver Trig in mid-May AND be caught out of town for Trig's rollout, without a clear cover story, in mid-April unless her story is:
a) True (implausible); or
b) False, and she really was surprised by Trig's arrival in mid-April while she was in Texas.
Hence, 4/5-weeks pre-mature at 6 lbs. 2 oz. on or about April 18 is probably true, since there would be no reason to lie about those confirmable facts.
Q.E.D.
Dangerous
To onething
It was me who became curious about eye color after you mentioned it.
To be truthful I didn't think it would break open the story I was simply interested in the idea because as I mentioned there are only brown eyed people in my family.
Thanks again to everyone for filling me in.
I have been reading the comments about the relationship between Bristol and her mother and would like to add my two cents.
I am not so sure that B is an unwitting and unwilling actor in this debacle. I think there is some truth to what is being written but I have a feeling that she is on her mother's side more than we know. We know so much about S but because B is silent we can only project onto her through our own experiences how she must be feeling.
I tend to think that she is on her mother's side when it comes to how the public is reacting to this story. All of the pictures we see of her looking uncomfortable may just be that she is nervous in the spotlight.
It's possible that an arrangement was made about the care and upbringing of Trig when she became pregnant. The events that unfolded since have no doubt changed the original plans and she is holding out that time will allow the original plan to unfold.
I don't believe that selfish S would go for this charade for anyone but her one of her female children and she never intended to be the caretaker of the child.
Yes there are plenty of children from dysfunctional homes that rebel early but some don't realize it until later in life. It's a good chance that B believes in her mother - and that would be very normal - but only time, maturity, distance, and the raising of her own family will allow her to see things objectively.
Dangerous,
Here we go again...While we all share your ongoing interest in Sarah's Tale, "facts" that are not confirmed, like Trig's birthweight, only muddy the water. We all can not help responding to the peculiarities of this story based on our own personal experiences. I had a five week premature infant, he weighed 5lb 12oz. He was on track to be an eight lb baby if he had gone to term. This makes me suspect Trig's supposed birthweight based on his supposed birthdate. I submit, ONCE AGAIN, that you can not shut those of us down who believe that Trig's birthdate could be earlier. As I recall, you were really pushing the idea of Willow being Trig's mom with the same level of adamance. Let me repeat, we are all entitled to our opinions, and trying to assert that your's is correct, based on unknowns, is beginning to really bother me. Can we agree to disagree?
On another note, yesterday was Sarah's birthdate, and today is Darwin's...just saying!
penny
I was going to write a comment but Penny, you addressed Dangerous in a thoughtful way.
To Penny et. al.,
Facts are stubborn things and yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how ridiculous or inconsistent with the facts it is.
If anyone wants to propose that Trig was born earlier, they first have to explain why SP would be caught out of town with a story riddled with inconsistencies. The reasonable assumption is that she didn't know she'd have to explain the appearance of Trig so soon because there wasn't a Trig to explain until April 18. Penny, you still have not done so.
Further, an explanation that assumes other facts not in evidence, or creates more holes, doesn't advance your case. It's just supposition on top of supposition. So I'm going to stand by my dismissal of Feb/March-Trig-birth-theories as wrong, until someone can produce confirmable evidence beyond their inferring Trig's age in weeks based on one photo on April 18.
Regarding my postulation that Willow could be Trig's mother, nobody has offered evidence to debunk that theory, yet. I'm still waiting. Beyond that, Willow being Trig's mother fits the confirmable facts, circumstantial evidence, and likely inferences one can draw. My opinion, for what its worth, is that Willow fits better than either Sarah or Bristol, and I've discussed my reasons for that at length. But I might be wrong. If Bristol hasn't given birth to Tripp -- as yet unconfirmed -- then she's back to being the top suspect since it's acknowledged that she has no alibi for early 2008. Of course, neither does Willow based on the evidence accumulated to date.
While we are acknowledging birthdays:
Feb 11, Sheryl Crow (47).
Dangerous
I don't normally appreciate the glut of catalogs I seem to get in the mail every week, but I happened to glance at 'potpourri' (which I've never even heard of, BTW) and got a kick out of the cover.
You can see the item featured on the cover here:
http://tinyurl.com/afeod8
How funny is that!?
I love the catalog, it says the delivery will take two or three weeks.
My word is derat....
Emotions, feelings, etc do get in the way sometimes; THEY DO AND PEOPLE MAKE DECISIONS ON THEM! Some people are not logical!
diana and all the "born early in anchorage" people-
what i fail to understand in your theory is how you think that SP convinced a large hospital in anchorage -which happens to be AK's biggest city and is home to people of many political persuasions, including people who've disliked how SP was running the state for some time now- to conceal bristol (or anyone else not SP) giving birth there and then being collected by SP or todd for a "reveal" at mat-su!
have you spent much time in large hospitals? especially not as a patient, but as someone connected to the staff? i'm telling you they wouldn't go along with this scheme!
what incentive would they have to do so? and what prevented regular people (you know other patients in the hall, people out on the street when they went to the car) from ever seeing the palin players in this conspiracy? people not working for the hospital are definitely not constrained by HIPPA.
this is a key part of your theory and i just don't get it. all it would take is one nurse with a democratic bent in the anchorage hospital, saying that's it, this BS is insurance fraud and i'm telling authorities, HIPPA would let him or her, it doesn't apply in cause of fraud/illegal actions. how did SP prevent this? why would she risk it?
and don't say the native hospital would let this happen. as part of the national native health care system it doesn't have funding to help everyone who needs it, and is required to provide services prioritized by both the patients medical and financial need. it's lots of long lines and bureaucracy, standing waiting with people who'd be VERY angry if they saw the governor's family getting special treatment and using up limited services when they have the state insurance AND private income level to go elsewhere.
so tell me how SP got anchorage to go along with this plan? i've been there, it's like a big small town (compared to chicago where i'm from) SP and her family would not have been anonymous there. she was famous for not spending enough time in juneau by the time of her "pregnancy" -alaskans were looking for her whereabouts, so that makes the idea of her becoming "anonymous" in anchorage even more difficult to swallow.
help me see what you're seeing.
Do you think that the Johnston/Palin feud stems from the fact that there is no Tripp, or Tripp was born later, and they aren't privy to the sham so they had to be kept away?
I've been reading this blog for quite a while, have enjoyed hearing from so many thoughtful and intelligent people. This is/was my first blog, and it will always hold a special place for me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this blog is meant to be a forum where anyone can share their thoughts and theories without fear of ridicule. IMHO, the majority of us feel that Sarah Palin is a narcissist, who lies as easily as she draws a breath. This woman has proven to be surprizingly uneducated, and an embarassment for those she represents.
If other readers of this blog aren't keeping up wirh what is happening with Alaskan politics, you should definately visit themudflats.net on a regular basis. Everytime she has to stray from the script, she stumbles so badly it makes GWB sound eloquant.
My point? Nothing, I repeat nothing, she says or those scripting for her, can be relied on to be fact.
I guess that's why it seems reasonable that she could have been planning on attending that conference, no matter what. Her delivery, and subsiquent telling of the birth story could have been planned. Unfortunately, her dad was pressed for details, and misspoke. The account of Trig's birth might have flown by unquestioned, had he not done so. We just don't know, and we should not cling to anything we have heard from anyone of the players in this farce.
Dangerous said:
"If anyone wants to propose that Trig was born earlier, they first have to explain why SP would be caught out of town with a story riddled with inconsistencies. The reasonable assumption is that she didn't know she'd have to explain the appearance of Trig so soon because there wasn't a Trig to explain until April 18. Penny, you still have not done so."
I don't have to "explain" anything to you, because, it is all speculation! You may be right, you may be wrong, I just don't get why some people aren't happy unless they shove their opinions down a dissenter's throat. It seems that you and I agree that Sarah Palin has not told the truth, so why are you being so disagreeable with me and down right polite to some of the trolls who have visited this site?
I do not like conflict, which is why I now reside in a country without a military, and where the majority of its citizens avoid conflict whenever possible. So let's not start name calling, because is is a waste of energy, uncalled for, and "ridiculous."
I read blogs for enlightenment, entertainment, and hopefully, to laugh each day...you are sort of sucking the fun right out of this site
As I asked once more...Can we agree to disagree?
I don't think Willow is the mother of Trig simply because she simply does not look parous to me.
***MODERATOR WARNING***
Penny asks "Can't we agree to disagree?"
We should be able to, and I've also become concerned by the tone of some who seem to take disagreement personally.
We need to keep in mind that until the truth comes out we won't know exactly what it is. Let's all remember this and keep our tones polite and civil.
I don't like what I'm seeing and am going to ask those of you injecting derision and snark into your commentary to please stop, or risk having your comments dumped.
Audrey and Co. have worked to make this blog a place for thoughtful discourse. Let's keep it that way, shall we?
Yes, JJ, I agree that the Johnston/Palin feud is in the minds of the Johnstons. Whether or not Palin has called them white trash, they are not privy to the Tripp deception and had to be kept away. In several months when Tripp's age is not so clear, Palin will allow Levi to allow his family to see Tripp.
I was fortunate (ha) to be able to read the National Enquirer article in the grocery line today. As I suspected, they are going on the nefu email and the Florida woman confirming that Sadie can't see Tripp. They are creating a feud from what we already saw on gawker. They have no real proof that there is a feud -- or that there is a baby Tripp. (They do have a picture of Sarah in an unfortunate choice of clothing, imho, perhaps to register whom they think is the real white trash in this story!)
I would like to give my 2 cents to the debate re. privacy and hospital.
I work at a pretty large hospital (1,000 beds). We have TONS of babies every day/week.
The only time a mother would potentially have to leave the room would be if she had to have a C-Section. Otherwise, EVERYTHING can happen in total privacy. The baby (in our hospital) can be born in the room, and the mother can choose to leave at a quiet time - like late in the evening, when nobody is around. If the mother wants COMPLETE privacy, she can even come incognito. There are no names ANYWHERE in the hallways, and if there is an emergency with the baby, it will be shuttled to the NICU, and even there (or: ESPECIALLY there), it is TOTAL privacy. The curtains are drawn, so nobody can see in, especially if the parents are in the room, and the parents even can ask for an employee to tell them when the hallway is free, so they can slip out of the room.
Also, if there is an underage mother - the whole ward clamps down COMPLETELY!
We have often some celebrities, and they will even show up on the 'official' roster as anonymous.
So. This is just my little input as to wether Bristol would have been able to have a baby in secrecy in Anchorage.
Just a point of information re: something luna1580 talked about in her post @ 1:35 PM today:
"all it would take is one nurse with a democratic bent in the anchorage hospital, saying that's it, this BS is insurance fraud and i'm telling authorities...."
Someone over on Mudflats just got done itemizing Palin assets. They aren't hurting for money.
Why would they have to involve any insurance companies for the BIRTH of Trig? It's his lifelong care that the Palins have to get covered by an insurance company, and if that insurance company needed his birth certificate, I'm sure they got a copy of it -- and as you point out, luna, HIPAA would keep it confidential.
In other words, anybody could have been admitted to that hospital under an alias with the intent of paying cash for the stay, and if it were done with Dr. CB-J in attendance along with her hand-picked delivery team, who's to know?
That's assuming several things, of course: A short hospital stay for both baby and mother, and subsequent oxygen/phototherapy treatment at home, monitored by that same hand-picked nursing team until the baby is stable enough to be revealed to the world. And Sarah Palin is on hand, back from her travels, ready to be "Trig's mom".
The amount of cooperation she's gotten from her extended family and her friends is phenomenal. Is the common thread this "end times" worship? The bigger circle of Sarah fanatics don't seem to hold those beliefs.....do they?
To Diana: 2-12-09 11:25 a.m.
Thank you, Diana, for your excellent post. You said it much better than I could of. However, you really made me think about something!
My response to Tully was because she questioned why so many of us thought he was a preemie. My reply was to let her know not all of us felt that way.
Funny, I've never questioned Trig's birth date. I did think he could of been born before she even went to Texas. Or, the day before she got back. But I didn't pay attention to the posts that implied a March date. You could be right because we just don't know.
We have to remember that she announced her pregnancy on Mar. 5, 2008. She shocked and surprised everyone around her. She told her staff, the media, that she was seven months along and due in mid-May. The due date had to be pushed out as far as possible because she did not look pg and to make it sound reasonable.
When she decided to take on this pregnancy, she had to know Bristol's due date, or close to it. It was her plan to say the baby came five weeks early from the get-go. It saved her from having to fake the pg for another five weeks.
Your theory, Diana, about the "wild ride", is excellent. Trig being born in March is something I have to question. But, like Tripp, he could have been hidden away...!
BTW, there are both facts and opinions in the above post.
Many people have said if Sarah is claiming insurance for Trig. Do we know she is? Just because she has stood on stage and said "he is my son" (I'm assuming Trig is Bristols here) - Just because she has said it on stage DOES NOT mean that she is claiming for him on her insurance; on paper for the insurance company it may well be stated that Trig is not Sarahs therefore not claiming on insurance.
Perhaps some of us are a bit edgy because there is a lull in the action, but I'm sure things will pick up soon. BTW, today is the 49th day since Tripp's reported birth, with nary a sighting of him or Bristol. Seven weeks. Hmmm. I'd say that Sarah's "proof" of her pregnancy -- that Bristol could not have given birth in April because she was pregnant in the fall -- has pretty much gone out the window.
An Anchorage delivery seems reasonable to me and easy enough to pull off and here’s why: I do not believe that a Palin woman was pregnant with Trig. The “real” mother of Trig could have had the baby and left with him, paperwork filled out, maybe cash was paid or a bill sent and paid because it didn’t go to an insurance company, a “powerful” doctor at the hospital makes a new policy on announcements etc (no big deal, they would use privacy rights as the reason not one case in particular), and the Palin clan might not have been at the hospital (might not have seen Trig until the “real” mother delivered the baby to them & the private adoption papers signed).
CasaCalvo said:
I don't think Willow is the mother of Trig simply because she simply does not look parous to me.
I admit I had to look up the term 'parous' (def: having given birth). I hope it's not too impolite to point out that this is circular reasoning. "I think something is true because I think it's true." I'm guessing you were trying to bait me.
Whatever you think of SP, she doesn't lie about everything. In response to some of the queries directed to me, I want to avoid semantic arguments. When I say 'confirmable', I mean that there's no reason to lie or contest an assertion because the facts are easily found. To the extent that the assertions represent characterizations -- such as SP leaving Texas abruptly -- other attendees confirmed that she dashed from the dias after her speech.
It is pure supposition that SP 'planned' to bolt from the conference and had a carefully laid plan to roll-out Trig on April 18. When I say his arrival was a 'surprise', I mean that it certainly surprised the public, as SP had stated that a baby wouldn't arrive for another month. I don't know if it surprised her, but she sure acted surprised, and her inconsistent actions and statements -- whether her father misspoke or not, sure leads me to that conclusion.
Attempting to pull something like this off in plain view of out-of-town parties; taking two long flights just before producing a child; bypassing better facilities to head to Mat-su with a triple-high-risk pregnancy -- these kinds of attention-drawing blunders hardly suggests a carefully laid plan.
When I said she went straight to Mat-su, I don't know if she stopped on the way or not. That's not particularly relevant. The important thing is that she didn't go home for the night, have breakfast, go to the store, then later the next day or after that head to the hospital. It was urgent enough that she didn't go home for the night, but not urgent enough to head to an Anchorage hospital. Again, this is not the hallmark of a carefully conceived plan to deceive.
It could all be true, but it's implausible people would act that way on purpose. All actions are consistent with a hastily-concocted scheme to cover-up an unexpected situation.
One final point. I agree nobody has to explain anything to *me*, but if you want your theories taken seriously, you have to explain them in the face of evidence and with logical inferences. Not everything here is speculation. Penny and others can't point to a single, confirmable piece of evidence that Trig was alive prior to April 17/18. All you've got is conjecture and theories.
I've got a picture of Trig on April 18, and lots of circumstantial evidence suggesting SP and others were surprised that Trig would arrive at that time. They could not have reasonably expected to create those surprise circumstances to serve the interests of hiding an earlier Trig birthdate. If anything, the wild ride added suspicion. If they wanted to create a real surprise, she would have turned up in at the hospital in the middle of the night after a quiet evening at home, and produced Trig with as few people watching as possible. That's a plan, not a wild-ride. And to preempt those who have said she wanted the wild-ride story to add to her mystique, then she's too stupid to pull off such a spectacle and I doubt any doctor or family member would go for it.
Dangerous
"I do not believe that a Palin woman was pregnant with Trig. The “real” mother of Trig could have had the baby and left with him, paperwork filled out, ... the Palin clan might not have been at the hospital ..."
Of course it's possible, but I think unlikely, because it brings up the question of motivation. SP would have gotten quite as much political points for adopting a special needs child ("His mother was going to abort him! I said I'd take him!") as for having one herself, and this put her through the hassle of pretending to be pregnant, and the post-nomination elimination of online photos, etc. The question I ask is what gain Sarah would get from this. I'm pretty well convinced that she does nothing that she sees no personal gain from- so why would she go through all that, when she can just say she's putting her money where her mouth is and adopting?
I have always felt that whoever gave birth to Trigg had a homebirth with a midwife. My theory has been that he was snuck into the hospital at a time when it is the most chaotic.
I believe his birth is listed as being born at around 6:00am. Shift change at most hospitals happen at 7:00am for the morning shift. Between 6:00 and 6:30, you're trying to wrap things up to give report to the next shift, (counting meds, finishing nurses notes, ect...)
It would be very easy at that time to have someone slip a baby in unnoticed by the rest of the staff. If it was just the doctor and Todd in at that time, they could easily say that Sarah gave birth when everyone else was out of the room.
The two problems I have though are:
1. It is usually a nurse who examines the mother for dilation and thinning of the cervix and...
2. A heart monitor is usually put on the abdomen to check the heart rate of the baby.
If it is just the doctor who is involved, they would have to find a way around this. Or else there has to be at least one other person (nurse) who would go along with this and be willing to sign their name to medical records regarding procedures that were never done.
I think it's important to remember that Sarah told her Wild Ride story DELIBERATELY. She did so because she thought it reflected well on her. Look at how it was written up in the papers, with her being portrayed as a tough frontier woman. THAT is why she told that story, to project that image. This is a lady who is more than capable of lying. Even if the story were true, she would not have told the tale if she thought it reflected badly on her.
It's also important to remember that if she was hurrying home to be in Alaska when Trig was born to "Whoever", she could simply have said she left the conference early because she didn't feel well and then suddenly went into labor and had the baby the next day. Again, she did not need to tell the Wild Ride story. It's ironic that her attempt at self-aggrandizement actually convinced so many that she wasn't Trig's birth mother. I have noticed this is a pattern in Sarah's lies: she doesn't just lie to cover something up, she uses her lie to make herself sound heroic, virtuous, etc.
As for the insurance angle, remember that if the birth mother were Bristol, she would have been covered under Sarah's insurance. Sarah would then have adopted the infant and become his "mom." No insurance fraud.
As for the birth date, Sarah could not have said Trig was due in mid April because she and the Dude were not together for conception at the right time. In fact, Trig could have been born in mid-April, on time, or he could have been born earlier. We really do not know.
As for whispers from the hospital, we really don't know that there aren't a few people in the know whispering up there in Wasilla or Anchorage. We know from the ADN that there are persistent rumors. Anyone who spoke openly would be liable for prosecution for violations of privacy, so we aren't going to see any nurses getting up and giving interviews. And as Little Me pointed out from her own hospital experience, most hospitals are very careful about respecting privacy, especially when a minor is involved. We don't have anyone saying they saw Sarah in the hospital either--the one fellow patient who was misquoted in the papers having since come out and said she only saw Todd. In fact, the absence of
hi diana (and everyone)- thanks for trying to address my questions. i'll try to answer yours:
"Is there a reason you feel it has to have been at Mat-Su other than the one about it being run by her church?"
in short- because of the wild ride.
if she rushed for 10 hours, 2 plane rides, and a drive from texas just to get to mat-su regional i believe there must have been a very compelling reason, like her daughter was giving birth there -early and unexpected- and had suffered complications.
the idea that she has personal religious ties to mat-su regional makes it in my mind a better place for a deception, not because her family would be more anonymous, but because they wouldn't NEED to be as anonymous. they would have all the legal privacy benefits you all have assured me would exist in anchorage, PLUS a system of hospital power players who would push to smooth out any wrinkles in the deception that did present themselves.
and it's a smaller place with less people (patients included) to see or hear something odd, and people as a whole more likely to support SP in whatever was going on than a more diverse hospital in anchorage. so this makes it a better place for any "shenanigans" in my mind. i don't think we should discount her church's KNOWN involvement in hospital politics. SP's religion appears to influence every aspect of her life, strongly. there are so few things here we do know, so why discount this one as not being influential?
so why NOT mat-su? as you yourself said, it is a providence hospital and ought to offer legal privacy protection policy identical to the anchorage hospital.
now i know people will say that i have only her story that she went straight to mat-su without making a stop in anchorage first, and they'd be correct. but here's the thing, i'm trying to work with the "facts" as they've been stated in relation to the wild ride and the birthdate because i see behaviors in SP's own public story that could do her political credibility and career harm -as the story stands today!
in fact, i have not ruled-out 100% that she isn't indeed the birth mother, and has something really really wrong with her ability to access risk and make healthy judgments and she took the wild ride, pregnant, just like she said. and in this case i think the public should be reminded of it when she runs for another position of power.
i think it's highly LIKELY she is NOT the birth mother, based on several pictures and her behavior, but i can't 100% rule it out because we just don't have enough real information. i may have just made myself unpopular here, but for my own good conscious i need to develop my own ideas as if this was a scientific study and keep working with what we know and how we know it. i refuse to become a "true believer," i want facts, and we just don't have very many :(
Sherry Johnston's trial is now delayed until May and she now has a new "celebrity" lawyer, Rex Butler. Butler has defended some of the more notorious criminals in recent Alaska history. I wonder who is paying his legal fees?
http://tinyurl.com/dmd6ac
FWIW-my word verifications is slymbolo
The Mat Su Regional Medical Center is not a Providence Hospital. We have a couple of small Providence clinics in Wasilla/Palmer, but the hospital in independently run. Just wanted to clear that up.
Can I ask the moderators-- what's going on with the site? Any plans for further updates/entries?
Yellowgirl
AKPetMom- our friend in wasilla!
thanks for clearing up that mat-su regional hospital is independently run. i thought i found the same in looking up the AK supreme court ruling involving it and abortion services. that ruling deemed the hospital "quasi-public" as in "being built or operating in whole or in part with public funding." that's all i knew.
so the fact (not speculation) that it is SP's small, independent, home-town wasilla/palmer hospital, with a board that was at one time in the near past was known (not speculated) to be running it who share her religious convictions makes me more certain than ever that it would be the best place for her to use personal, political, or religious connections to bend rules, avert eyes, or whatever may have been necessary if Trig was not born from her body.
and the fact she scrambled up there from texas!
i also do not think the wild ride shows a single sign of being "planned." i think the "tough momma" story was spin put on it when she realized how poorly it made her look.
i don't think she, todd, her advisors, her pastor, or whoever helps her "plan" things is dumb enough to believe that a woman with a known multi-high risk risk pregnancy taking that trip without even a physical exam in texas AFTER her membranes prematurely ruptured would ever look good.
something HAPPENED that caused the wild ride, it was a sloppy mistake that the story came out, so then they tried to spin it as best the could.
so what happened?
*she really went into labour and for some unknown reason HAD to have her baby in AK, and at mat-su, not anchorage. like she said.
*someone else really went into labour and she had to be their to present the baby to the news crews. and possibly her extended family/friends.
*something else that is total speculation on our part happened, and she had to get to that hospital. -someone she loved was in distress? who knows? we don't.
those are the most logical options, options based on what we know: she abruptly left texas, she was said to be at mat-su by her doctor and her family, then a baby got its picture taken with the heaths. then he went to sarah's office with her and todd.
everything else is speculation, and it's making ALL of us frustrated, but what else can we do but speculate and wait to learn something new? what if we never get any more facts? depressing as hell, but a possibility at this point.
so let's not snipe at each other now, but all hope for something new to come out.
-luna
IMO I think we all are forgetting about CBJ's statement in SP's Medical letter that Trig was admitted to the hospital shortly after birth for Jaundice.
My thought is that Bristol gave birth to Trig in a home delivery or in an Anchorage hospital earlier than April 18th.
SP announces her pregnancy on March 5th after finding out Bristol's baby has DS or after just making a decision to keep the baby. My thought is that Trig is not born at this time. SP does not announce the sex of the baby.
SP announces that the baby is 'A Boy' I think on April 4th. Trig is already in the world at this time. Which makes me agree with some other posters that he was born in mid-March when SP was out of sight for 2-weeks. Can't recall the dates.
SP needed to fake the pregnancy for a little while longer 1) because she wanted to make her story believable since no one thought she looked pregnant when she announced it and 2) because she was determined to attend that Energy Conf. in TX. Her VP Candidacy depended on it. This was her major 'coming out party'.
My first thought is that while in TX she received a call from CBJ or someone else stating that Trig had severe Jaundice and needed to go to a hospital. She needed to be there to claim Trig. This setup the 'wild ride'. I would hope that if the 'wild ride' was pre-planned before this call that SP and First Dude would have had a better story. It sound like a story made up at the last minute.
Or SP and her 'team of deception' could have (like some have said here), planned to return home in the middle of the night to claim Trig without the press and hospital staff being aware of the deception. I doubt this though.
Isn't it odd that CBJ claims that Trig went into the hospital shortly after birth for Jaundice and none of the papers in AK picked this story up? This is supposedly the Governor's 5th child and the birth was while in office an NO MSM picked up a story of her infant being sick? This is strange in itself.
We have not seen a birth certificate for Trig so we don't know for sure when he was born. Even in CBJ's letter she states "This child, Trig, was born at 35 weeks in good health." She never stated the actual date of his birth.
Also, isn't it strange that CBJ claims in this letter that SP 'followed the normal and recommended schedule for prenatal care' but SP's staff never mentioned anything about consistent doctor appointments or time away from the office as a clue that she could have been pregnant? Only thing we got from a staffer was that she started to wear beautiful scarves!
I remember starting a new company pregnant with my 2nd child and trying to keep it a secret until after 12 weeks- only to have someone on my staff comment on why I had so many doctors appointments and I was only going once per month. But I guess if Sarah spent most of her time in Wasilla they may not have noticed.
Let's hope that the truth will come out soon. SP is a dangerous individual. I don't trust her no further than I can throw her.
p.s. please excuse my typos in the last comment, i think there are a few.
DANGEROUS said,
"All actions are consistent
with a hastily-concocted scheme
to cover-up an unexpected situation."
this summary matches my own view of how the SARAH HOAX unraveled:
while she was in TEXAS
something happened in ALASKA
that triggered a panic attack
which led to a series poorly thought-through improvised reactions.
Thanks wafflestomper - that article about Sherry's fancy new lawyer is interesting. And Levi and Mercede showed up with her! Something changed with Sherry's circumstances - hmmmmmmmmm.
Mat-Su Regional Medical Center Palmer,Ak
In the Family Birthing Center, visiting hours are unlimited for your immediate family and birth partners. Other family
members must adhere to the daily visiting hours (8:30 a.m. to 8:30 p.m.). For security purposes, the Family Birthing Center
interior doors to the main hospital lock at 8:30 p.m. and reopen at 7:00 a.m. Access to the Family Birthing Center during
locked hours can be requested via the phone located just outside the doors. Outside access through the main Birthing Center
entrance is open 24-hours a day.
Just read on the Immoral Minority that Greta Van Sustern will be interviewing Todd, Sarah & Bristol Palin. http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/
Friday evening on February 13, please everyone go to Immoral Minority blog - lead article. Greta vanSusteren is in Alaska. Will interview Sarah, Todd and Bristol Palin (Bristol about being a teenaged mother.)
@ penny 7:21; 2:22
Thank you, penny.
Does anyone know when the picture was made of SP and Trig that was on the US Weekly cover?
From what I have been able to find, that magazine came out around 05-09-08. Is that correct?
SP & Trig are wearing the same outfits as the day of the baby shower, which I read was 05-05-08.
The reason why I am asking, the baby looks weeks older in the cover picture than in the picture with Sadie judging from the size of the head and maybe well over a pound heavier.
Regarding the wild ride...well, I agree that Pop was the first to mention the water breaking story...but, I believe SP was coached on what to say during that interview. Why? She specifically said at least twice, it was hers or her/dude's decision to stay/fly letting the doctor off the hook. And dude making the remark that there's a lot of new doctors out there on the streets in the last couple of days...that was a back-off kinda statement to shut people up. And then SP started talking about the critics when the child was supposedly only 2 days old.
See...they spilled too much information...if I was sitting in front of a camera and I was asked about water breaking...I would have stopped the camera; I am the mother of two, and my water broke with both. I would not have shared that with the world. But, it seems SP was telling that story to make her giving birth real.
For what it is worth...
Dangerous said:
I admit I had to look up the term 'parous' (def: having given birth). I hope it's not too impolite to point out that this is circular reasoning. "I think something is true because I think it's true." I'm guessing you were trying to bait me.
I am not trying to bait you, I am giving my opinion on a subject that I have been exposed to dozens of times in my life. We all do this everyday.
The fact that Willow doesn't look like a person who has given birth is just as valid as to me as my belief that S does not look pregnant in the pictures presented here. I could write paragraph after paragraph explaining why I think so but I don't think that is necessary.
I think after you have seen enough young women become mothers you know that there is a change in them. This cannot be explained but there it is.
Dating of the photos...there are two pictures of the three girls at the governor's mansion made on 12-08-06, after SP won the election for governor. They were checking out their new house. Has those two pictures been compared with the photos shown here? Just wondering...
Also, CBJ's letter did not give the date of Trig's birth, although she provided info regarding his disability. Strange...again.
from CELTIC DIVA (abridged):
Revenge of the "Community Organizers"--Why Talis Colberg is REALLY Alaska's ex-AG/ Celtic Diva / Wed Feb 11, 2009
So the Palin Administration hasn't had a very good couple of weeks.
--Andree McLeod filed two ethics complaints, one against her Press Secretary Bill McAllister and one on Palin's closest aide, Kris Perry.
--CNN has been doing regular broadcasts of Dennis Zaki's videos from his trip to Rural Alaska...a trip the Governor has yet to make...causing questions about the Governor's inaction to go national. Dennis's trip was a result of grass-roots fundraising by bloggers and "community organizers."
--The Alaska Legislature reminded the 10 folks subpeonaed during the Branchflower Investigation that they were in contempt when they decided not to show up. However, they put much of the blame on Attorney General Talis Colberg in advising them that they had the option not to show up, so the Legislature decided not to punish them. (I heard from sources over the weekend that the Legislature "may not be done" with Colberg.)
--Talis Colberg "resigned" as Attorney General Tuesday. (The jury may to be out on whether it was an actual "resignation," as there are rumors to the contrary. Andrew Halcro points out he sent a more-than-curt goodbye to his staff, uncharacteristic of a "resignation" and Phil Munger shared a rumor he heard from several sources about the "resignation" being part of a deal to insure the Legislature won't pursue Palin any further on Troopergate. House Speaker Mike Chenault denied this rumor on his blog), and...
--The Governor will disappoint her out-of-state fans by forgoing a much-touted appearance at the Conservative Political Action Conference, suddenly coming to the conclusion (contradictory to her trip two weeks ago) that she shouldn't be leaving during the Legislative session.
Governor Palin is claiming that Talis "resigned" because it's a "harsh political environment." Even the Daily News headline states that "Colberg resigns amid legislative pressure over 'Troopergate'"
Let's all be clear about where that "pressure" has come from:[community organizers].
...
The Repubublicans also declared war on "Community Organizers."
Since no one else seemed to be standing up against the McCain Campaign people who were taking over the Alaska Government, in rode the community organizers:
- Three women in a kitchen organized the "rally heard 'round the world"...Alaskan Women Reject Sarah Palin.
- Alaskans for Truth was formed in a living room in response to the McCain Campaign taking over the Alaska State Government and smearing Walt Monegan. There was a rally demanding, among other things, that Talis Coleberg be fired or resign and that those who ignored the subpeonas be held accountable.
A petition was there for signature demanding that Colberg step down and continued online afterwards. 2000 signatures were gathered.
-- Alaskans for Truth delivered the petition to the Governor's Office, where it was accepted by Press Secretary Bill McAllister and followed by the media.
-- Alaskans for Truth pushed a "Call to Action" called "Countdown to Truth" where for 10 days, everyone was encouraged to repeatedly contact the members of the Legislative Council, pushing for them to release the Branchflower Report. 2000 emails were sent out and the voice mail and email boxes of the legislators were flooded.
The report was released on a unanimous vote.
-- Alaskans for Truth had another major "Call to Action" leading up to the legislative session where hundreds of supporters contacted members of the Legislature through the holidays demanding that action be taken against Talis Colberg, the folks who ignored the subpeonas and that the results of the Branchflower Report not be forgotten. Before the "call" there were a number of legislators who had already stated they were "over" Troopergate. After a few weeks of emails, several legislator responses changed from less favorable to more favorable towards action on the Branchflower Investigation.
So, thanks to community organizers, Alaskan bloggers (wearing pajamas or not), and most of all, the passionate public out there who has supported the efforts, two of the things Alaskans for Truth wanted to get done were finished this week.
I encourage Governor Palin to continue to insult, laugh-at and try to discredit bloggers, community organizers, and civic-minded constituents. Believe me, it just makes us all more determined. And it appears that the Palin Administration really can't afford for us to get any more "determined" than we already are.
Wafflestomper -
Thank you for the heads-up on the information with regards to Sherry's new lawyer.
Rex Butler is an interestesting choice as Sherry Johnstone's attorney because he is an African American who has been very outspoken about Sarah Palin's strained relations with Alaska's African American community. I expect that Sarah will not be at all happy with Sherry's choice and that we can look forward to an explosive trial.
(Rex Butler, what a great name. I sure hope he sweeps Palin away......)
Kathleen - PD Research Crew
Hi "wafflestomper" (love that name) at 1:38,
thanks a lot for the highly interesting and useful piece of information!
The fact that Rex Butler is now the defence lawyer of Sherry Johnston and therefore a new player in the game could in fact be a "game-changer", and I am very curious of what will happen next.
Who exactly is Rex Butler? He is a highly popular defence lawyer in Alaska, he is liked by judges, prosecutors and clients alike, he is black, has a charasmatic personality and an inspiring life story. He apparently doesn't like Sarah Palin much and gave substantial contributions to the Democrats in the past, and there would be much more to say about him, but fortunately I found an excellent article about him:
http://tinyurl.com/cjquun
I have the feeling that we are up for a good show, and I also think that there is a strong possibility that SP could now get dragged into this. The reason for this might be that the news the Palins are preventing Sherry and Mercede Johnston from seeing their "nefu"...
http://tinyurl.com/a2m4dl
...could be brought up during the trial.
And it seems to be a fact that SP has a very unsteady relationship with black Americans - from Huffington Post:
"(...)Palin has long had strained relations with Alaska's African American community. "Blacks don't have the levels of access to the governor and state commissioners as with past administrations," said African American attorney Rex Butler and an Alaska resident since 1983. "It seems the posture of (Palin's) administration with Blacks is: Don't need them, don't worry about them."(...)"
Here:
http://tinyurl.com/3wgwnl
In addition, more interesting information can be found about this issue here (starts from the second posting):
http://tinyurl.com/dhmx3l
I cannot wait to see what happens next. :-)
It looks like we have a subject for a new post(finally)here soon: word is that Greta V from "Faux" will have the Palins plus Bristol on her "On the Record" show sometime soon. I saw it mentioned on one blog (can't remember which one), then upon googling, a mention in the highly scary 'Moms for Sarah Palin' site, that the Palin family would be the subject of an upcoming "On the Record" with Greta V. However, I also peeked into the actual Faux site and couldn't find any hype for it.
If true, should be interesting, dontcha think? Think they'll show us the alleged baby born allegedly on December 27/28 of 2008?
Oh, and, gosh, I wonder, too if Levi will be at the interview? Also?
Will Greta talk about the very difficult and involved legislative session that is taking so much of GINO's time that she is unable to travel to either Emmonak or the Republican thingie she recently canceled?
GINO--Mudflatters name for SWWNBN, means "governor in name only".
luna1580: be wary of basing your thoughts on SP "rushing" home on the wild ride. Remember that the ride is wild only in retrospect, and only if you assume SP was pregnant.
If you assume she was not, and if you listen to her original account of that wild ride transrcipt), some thoughts emerge:
--She seems pretty relaxed about cutting her time at the conference short -- not at all like a woman who is leaking amniotic fluid.("I decided it would be ok to, um, skip the reception that night that we’d already by that time have taken care of our meetings and my speech.")
--the leak comes up only per the reporter's prodding. Twice, the reporter has to ask. Sounds like SP made an off comment to her Dad, who quoted SP, the reporter called SP on it, SP had to make something up on the fly.
--midnightcajun, I agree with everything you just said except the word DELIBERATELY, since I think the way she describes it in the transcript suggests a quick scramble. Deliberate, yes, in the sense that she did tell it, but IMHO without much deliberation -- on the fly. Had she realized the implications of her story, the nuttiness of it, she would have told a different story, or laughed off he father's version. Which suggests to me that she was not well versed on DS when she told the story -- and I was not, either, at the time (I noticed only the weird lack of panic at the leak aspect, and the DS complications slipped right by me because I had never read up on it).
Which bring me to remind myself -- there is very little we know for sure about almost all of the basic facts (in itself an odd fact, as many have pointed out), which have obviously been concealed.
We DO know, from these photos (plus several others, like the Elan womb-thumping scene and its squarepants close-up) that she was not pregnant. And that is enough. No need for any other info.
Except of course to entice the sluggish and cowardly MSM to cover it. I guess it is essential to "out" the other parties in this, some of whom are innocent, in order to get this obvious story the coverage it must have.
Additionally, the Greta interview must be happening after this Iron Dog thing....they are still going, right? Either that, or the interview already took place, but I doubt then that it wouldn't have already aired.
Guess we wait until the Big Important Waste-of-Gas Race is done.
Many thanks to wafflestomper for the link to the latest in the Sherry Johnston saga--the comments are interesting, including speculation that the Texas-based Liberty Legal Institute may be helping finance Johnston's "prominent" attorney. Worth looking into--although I am sad that there were no photos to accompany the article--we'll just have to wait for the next National Enquirer or People magazine...
The debate about the wild-ride story is fascinating, and continues to draw lots of great commentary. I will state that I believe Trig was born on or immediately before April 18, and that the "sneak" arrival of Palin (while Alaskans thought she was in Texas--so she surprised THEM) was most definitely part of a "plan." My response to Dangerous about the logic/illogic of Palin's story is that even the best-laid plans do not always anticipate the questions one may have to answer--for example, arriving around 11:00 pm from the Texas conference and then giving birth at 6:30 am (a mere 7.5 hours after landing or driving from Anchorage) meant that people would certainly ask--well, did you go into labor on the plane? at the conference? why land and go to the hospital, unless you had some suspicion? and then the question would be, if you had suspicion, why didn't you get a medical opinion? etc, etc. Even the airline decided to make their statement that the stage of her pregnancy was not obvious to them.
Such issues are not minor, and Todd's glib comment that now everyone is a doctor won't stop the inquiry.
I also firmly believe that Trig was not so early. His healthy birth weight does not indicate pre-term status. This was also part of the plan, as others have noticed, so Palin would not have to prolong her fictional pregnancy and have people on babywatch....
Greta (Fox News) is returning to Alaska for a Sarah interview this coming Monday Night it will be shown at 10... Bristol is supposed to be there too.. talking about being a young mother.. think we will see the little mystery baby?
Bristol Palin goes "On The Record"
Next week Greta Van Susteren will have The Palin Family "On The Record" including Bristol Palin on her new adventure of motherhood.
Should be an interesting interview. "On The Record" airs week nights on the Fox News channel @ 9pm central time.
Greta Van Sustern claims to have just seen Tripp Palin.
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/02/14/just-interviewed-members-of-the-palin-family/
MidnightCajun -- I'm with you. The really puzzling fact about the 'wild ride' story is that, no matter what actually did or did not happen, the story itself is completely unnecessary except from the perspective of self-agrandizement.
Some people claim Sarah had to compose the 'wild ride' story because her dad spilled the beans on the 'water breaking'. Not true. All she had to say was something to the effect that her dad misunderstood, his hearing is not so great, it was a bad phone connection, etc. etc. We KNOW she is capable of dissembling like that !
And there is absolutely no reason for 'the rest of the story'. All that is necessary is some sort of comment to the effect that, "We decided to take an earlier flight home. (No reason need be given). While driving from the Anchorage airport to Wasilla, I began have symptoms of labor. We went to Mat-Su regional to get checked out and to our surprise and delight, Trig arrived X hours later." End of story.
And if that had been the story, we would not be here today. Thank god for self aggrandizement !
I still think the story was scripted by a male (Chuck Heath, perhaps ?) who had NO IDEA how it would sound to women who have their own birth stories.
The minute I heard this story there were red flags popping up inside my mind !
Thank you again to Audrey, Morgan and crew. This is sort of like waiting for the ice to go out on a big river, we know it is going to go but we don't know exactly when . . . but when it does, it will be dramatic !
Finally, in the press conference Miss Sarah gave a few days ago posted on mudflats, she looks like her batteries have totally run down. . .
My suspicion: Sarah scheduled the Greta interview as soon as she could after Bristol gave birth. We will not see Tripp because he doesn't look 6 weeks old. Greta may see him off-camera, but since she does not have children, she won't know how old he is or isn't.
everyone remember, she left that conference in TX early, ditched out on the formal dinner, so she needed to give some kind of reason for leaving.
okay, i'm going to go with the whole "wild ride story totally made up with unnecessary details (a hall-mark of a lie, by the way)" idea. made-up yes, planned in advance NO.
she had to have a reason to leave texas because something was happening in AK, "leaking" seemed like a good reason to someone without real medical knowledge of the birth process (which doesn't necessarily exclude SP, she lacks intellectual curiosity, having 4 babies doesn't mean she did medical research).
the story was ridiculous as soon as that mistake was made, but there was no going back. she didn't ever plan to leave texas earlier, and made a panicked mistake in constructing her story about it.
all this brings us back to is- SOMETHING important, a birth, a person in medical peril, something happened -in AK at mat-su regional.
how i wish i knew what that something was!
Although Dangerous has been scolded I have sympathy for his approach. Many of his posts keep us on track and deter some of the wild speculators. I, too, have noticed that some people present opinions, such as "I don't believe any of the Palin women are Trig's mother" and then when people point out the illogic, there is not a sincere effort to defend/address the arguments.
On the other hand, Dangerous, I have several times made comments that you have also not addressed, quite probably just due to the volume.
I do think it is plausible that the wild ride story got out of hand. Also, she is a surprisingly bad liar, and just doesn't seem to get it that her words could be scrutinized. And no doubt most times they are truly were not, but she had made a leap into a different arena, and that difference in level of scrutiny took her by surprise.
But you could be right that the birth of Trig was unexpected and caused them to scramble. However, I think it is clear that going to the conference in Texas was extremely important to Sarah, and even if Trig was due in, say, a week or so, she decided to push it.
But I think it is very reasonable to say that she may have given a due date of May with the idea of pretending the baby came early because for whatever reason she embarked on the faking at a very late date - announcing at 7 months. It was already implausible at 7 months. 6 would have been much better. So much better that I truly wonder, what happened to suddenly cause her to do this?
As of today I did not see Todds name in the Iron Dog. He was 5th two days ago. Was he one of the four teams that crashed? Oh karma comes in many ways!
The Greta interview is timed perfectly. Things piling up on the Palin Ponderosa. So it is time to tell another story.
Talis Colberg's resignation and the mysterious reason WHY? 5 day ago!
Sherry Johnston's new attorney. Will he turn out to be part of Palin's game plan. Or like people have stated a check mate on the chess board that makes a move Sarah will not be able to control?
Look forward to the next chapter?
Whenever Palin has to play defense, she goes on Greta. It might have worked with "the base" during the campaign. Now, not so much....
Wow! Just when I thought things were getting dull, all this new stuff!
Thanks wafflestomper for that link: the comments are amazing. Those Alaskans know the score. Some hilarious entries. Also, good work in the comments, AKPetMom. Glad we are moderated, though, so we don't have to wade through a ton of entries like:
"you obviously are an idiot!"
"you obviously are an idiot who can't spell!"
These sure don't "progress" the issue. (By the way, SP's use is the first time I've heard "progress" used as a verb, as in "progress the country." Wonderfully nonpecific, ain't it?)
Thanks Patrick for the url to Rex Butler. Per the article, I get the impression that an out-of-court settlement would be best for all (except us!) -- Sherry, SP, the kids -- to prevent public court action, whether she proves to be innocent (as she pleaded) or guilty.
Rex Butler would be a good one for some of us to send a concise statement of what we know for sure. To help him in his pre-plea-bargain negotiations? That would help us only indirectly, but I would say that having Rex Butler understand our issue is a good thing. No?
"The minute I heard this story there were red flags popping up inside my mind !"
Yeah, my first thought was: oh that is SUCH a lie.
Amy1, thank you for the photo summary. I think you have homed in on the 3 most important photos (and thanks for correcting the dates). Maybe the Elan Frank square pillow shot would be the fourth. These are the most compelling photographic proof that the SP pregnancy was a hoax.
Probably the biggest reason (or should I say, the "smallest" reason) why Sarah left the TX conference early is that she did not want to attend that evening banquet. Had she attended, her SpongeBob Squarepants would have come under much too close scrutiny, unless of course she had brought her strapless winter coat and strapless scarf collection with her to Texas. She needed an excuse to vamoose!
I haven't weighed in for a while but continue to read faithfully, hoping for that ice to break loose and flow down river, using the simile of someone above.
Last night, a friend I've known for 40 years confessed that her mother abandoned the family when my friend was in high school. The children were left in the "care" of an alcoholic stepdad and an alcoholic maid. I've known the woman all my life, and never knew. She said that she and her siblings just covered for their mother because it was too painful not to. This happened in a small town in the sixties, where we all knew each other, and yet, we didn't.
I believe Sarah is not smart enough to concoct grand schemes. I believe everything she'd done and said is about expediency. I believe the wild ride story started as a little white lie to throw Chuck Heath off ("Why didn't you call us last night, sweetie? . . .Well, Dad, there just wasn't time. I barely made it back from Dallas.. .) -- and like all public lies, it grew like cancer.
Why Mat Su? Palin could control the people who helped in the fraud. She could enlist the aid of fellow church members "in the work of the Lord." In an Anchorage hospital, there would be too many variables. (Unless it was the birth of a non-Palin mother-- which I think makes the story far too tin-hatty. As others have said: Palin could have gotten just as much traction out of adoption. Something very heinous (or politically damaging) happened to require fraud.)
I also believe there will be lots to surprise when the truth is revealed. At the same time, I believe the facts are fairly simple-- and borne out of Sarah's need to control.
We've witnessed the heads flying in her office (and in the state government) when folks don't tow the line. I bet her family is the same way.
Trouble is, you may think you control the bodies and minds of folks around you (like the Christian parenting manuals say you can) but in the end, any teenager has the freedom to rebel and make your life hell.
That's a lot of rambling to say that righteousness has fueled many an inquisition, invasion, purging, and bloodletting. It may be the most dangerous political agenda out there. As Bush proved, someone who believes he/she is right at any cost is deadly to us all.
Here are the facts:
To save face, to promote her belief systems and spur her career, Palin will stop at nothing to promote herself. Fact.
She lies. Fact.
She uses her family as political capital. Fact.
She is ruthless in controlling those around her. Fact.
People are afraid of her. Fact.
She believes she is the handmaiden of God's wishes. Fact.
Well, just maybe a black lawyer from Anchorage charmingly named Rex Butler will prove the Ice Queen's downfall. I can't imagine a more fitting end to this saga.
(my verification word is "undog.")
I agree with Patrick! This is going to be interesting with Rex Butler defending Sherry Johnston.
I have read in several places that he and other black leaders in Alaska have been quite disappointed in SP's need for diversity and inclusion.
It makes me wonder if there is more to all this. Did Rex Butler pursue the case with Sherry to somewhat get back at SP or did Sherry pursue Rex Butler to get back at SP? I just find this odd that these two got together since Rex has defended hard core criminals (murder, drug lords etc.) in the past and Sherry is just up for drug charges. And it appears that she is a first time offender. Why would he pick her case and where is the money for this defense coming from? Maybe because it is a high profile case but I don't think that's the only thing.
All I know is that I don't think SP is too happy about all of this. Good!!!!!
Yes, SP is going on Greta's show to try and dispel rumors and to tell a few more lies. I suspect that we will not see Tripp but it will be interesting to hear what Bristol has to say. That is, if they let her talk. And why is it that her 'baby daddy' Levi is not going to be joining the family in the discussion.
I think Bristol and Levi have broken up. Levi is back with Sherry and Sade now-his own family.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/matsu/story/686257.html
Not sure how to make that an active link.....and in case it doesn't work, here's what it's about:
There is a special-needs clinic in Wasilla that is closing due to financial problems. Lots of parents in the area are panicking....and do read the comments as well.
Looks like Sarah is really busy being an advocate for special-needs children especially in her own state, ney, in her own backyard.
How could she--the saint with the Down's Syndrome child-- allow this? Would not now be the perfect time for the Governor to authorize some emergency funding for this poor clinic? Or, at the very least, ask for donations from some rich Alaskans so this clinic does not have to close? Sarah? Are you there? Are you listening? Hello???
Sarah Heath Palin, time to get your head out of your....oh, sorry blog moderators......I just read stuff like that and my blood absolutely boils at the hypocrisy.
Just got done reading the immoral minority blog - Rex Butler is an African American attorned that doesn't really care for SP. Maybe after she heard that news she called Gretta "running scared" maybe. From what I understand Rex Butler is not someone you want to cross, so maybe just maybe if he hears from some of us the heat can be turned up a little bit?? Does anyone else think if we do see Tripp that maybe he was "borrowed" for show?
I know the carbon emissions from the Iron Dog are only a drop in the bucket of our global-warming problem, but how ironic to have this gas-waster contest happen on the same weekend as this announcement that global warming is happening faster than expected.
OT, unless one had the wild idea that a governor might initiate change -- like redefining the contest to be man and snow, alone, without the gas-powered engine part.
Someone mentioned SP "rushing off the podium" after her talk at the Gov Conf: Does anyone have links to that statement? Or any other documentation from the Conf about whether she said she was about to deliver, or acted like it? Or any comments about the amniotic fluid leak at that time? I vaguely recall something but cannot find it again.
Identifying that first moment when SP says she has some labor signs could be useful. The first CONTEMPORANEOUS moment, I mean -- not after-the-fact, recollected, spin-doctored quotes from a later time decreeing how it was, or must have been.
I believe that moment to be this interview
-- transcript
-- audio
preceded of course by the mystery conversation with her father and his quote to the press.
Is there anything earlier, oh sharp-eyed ones out there?
All Miss Sarah had to say about leaving the conference early was something really family-friendly like, "we wanted to be home for church on Sunday" or the like.
And it would have been very easy to deflect any questions about 'labor starting on the plane' by simply saying, 'By the time we were in the car heading for Wasilla, the long day of traveling had brought on some symptoms which could have been early labor. So we went to Mat-Su to get me checked out.' End of story.
The story of the 'wild ride' has male pattern fingerprints all over it. And we KNOW that Miss Sarah is programmed to defer to the male deities in her life . . . in the audio she sounds almost glib until the very end, when she gets a little defensive, as if she had rehearsed the whole thing . . . but was running out of script . . .
Also back then, we had no benchmark for comparing her 'rehearsed' remarks to her 'random extemporaneous' remarks. But we do now !
When an avalanche damaged a major electrical power line near Juneau, Alaska, on April 16 2008, life abruptly changed for the town's 30,000 inhabitants. The line had carried inexpensive hydroelectric power that supplied 85 percent of the Alaskan state capital's electricity needs.
Heavy snow knocked out a substantial section of the primary power line to Juneau on April 16, record snowfalls buried Juneau on the morning of April 17 and the record cold temperatures of April 18 would have prompted Juneau residents to jack up their thermostats. On April 17 Juneau city government declared the loss of its hydroelectricity a disaster, then asked the state for aid.
Do these dates ring a bell? Where was the Governor while Juneau faced a major crisis? Oh yes, she was in Texas delivering a speech, leaking amniotic fluid, followed by a wild ride from Dallas to Palmer, followed by the birth of baby Trig on April 18.
Ok, so she was a tad busy, but where was lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell? Who knows, he's never been allowed to do anything when the Governor is indisposed or away from her office for long periods, like say, running around the country on a campaign for the vice presidency?
The events that followed have an interesting familiarity and will remind many of a more recent crisis.
Between April 17 and May 2 this is what happened: Juneau's legislative delegation sent a letter to Governor Palin supporting a state disaster declaration and asked her office to hire an expert to assist with Juneau's response. On April 22 Palin announced that multiple state agencies were working with the power company to assess the damage and develop a plan to recover power to Juneau. April 23: Governor's disaster policy cabinet met to discuss Juneau's situation and discuss declaring a state disaster and on April 30 recommended to Palin that she not approve the declaration. May 2: announcement that Governor Sarah Palin had rejected a request from the city of Juneau to issue a disaster declaration in response to the city's power crisis.
The Governor was distracted with her own personal crisis, which made the headlines in all the major Alaska newspapers for days on end. From the Governor's point of view, this seemed a good time to bury bad news. The joyous event and all the drama about Trig having Down's Syndrome effectively buried Juneau under more than just the avalanche.
This story mirrors the Governor's response to the Emmonak crisis nine months after Juneau. Hey, nine months! She could have had another baby! Oh, she had already done that one, let's have a bit of originality.
But seriously, the sad reality is, some things never change...
I think it is interesting that Sherry Johnston's lawyer is a non-Palin fan. That contradicts my theory that Palin was going to pay for Sherry's legal fees, so she'd get a top-notch lawyer, increasing the chance of an acquittal, and Bristol could marry Levi with less scandal. How embarrassing it would be for the governor to have in-laws with a drug conviction. Some time after it was announced that Bristol and Levi "would" get married, the statement was downgraded to "might get married." Can anyone remember when they said "might," or who said it? I think it was Sarah's dad, but I'm not sure. Was it after the election? Near the time of the arrest? We know that the law had Sherry in her sights before the election, but postponed to arrest until after. Maybe "would" became "might" after it was clear that Sherry was to be arrested. When is the wedding date compared to the trial date, or has a wedding date even been announced? Does whether Bristol and Levi get married depend on the outcome of Sherry's trial? What a shame if she can't attend her own son's wedding. (Seriously.) Maybe, if she is convicted, she won't have to go to jail (assuming that's the sentence) until after the wedding.
Could Sarah & Todd be paying for Mr. Butler's services in spite of his not liking Sarah? Just to get a good lawyer for Sherry?
ONETHING,
a great summary, specially this bit:
"I do think it is plausible that the wild ride story got out of hand.
"Also, she is a surprisingly bad liar, and just doesn't seem to get it that her words could be scrutinized.
"And no doubt most times they truly were not, but she had made a leap into a different arena,
"and that difference in level of scrutiny took her by surprise."
THAT explains much.
i think sometimes in our speculations we want to give her too much credit for being a master deceiver, when in reality she's proven to be careless and sloppy at best.
this whole pregnancy hoax was so poorly thought thru, which is why it started falling apart from the get-go as evident by her inability to make the faux belly credible.
Remember this after SP announced Bristol's pregnancy.
U.S. Sen. John Ensign, a conservative Christian who has said out of wedlock births should be “somewhat stigmatized,” stood up for Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her daughter in a brief interview Tuesday.
“I’m a parent of a teenager and it’s one of our worst fears,” he said. “But you can do everything you can possibly do as parents and your kids are going to do things, just like we did, that our parents don’t approve of. They’re going to make mistakes. That doesn’t mean they did anything wrong as parents.”
Ensign said Palin’s 17-year-old daughter is “doing the right thing” by having the baby and marrying the father.
“She’s not going to have an out of wedlock birth,” he said. “The young lady is taking responsibility. She made a mistake and she’s taking responsibility.”
I wonder what Sen. Ensign thinks about all of this now. Nobody knows for sure that Bristol had the baby because nobody has seen him except for Greta and Bristol has not even married the baby's father. So Tripp, if he exists, was born out of wedlock.
Wondering why with so many of the conservative Christians like Ensign making statements like this, why would SP not make Tripp's birth announcement a bigger deal with photo spreads at every chance? And what's holding up Bristol and Levi's marriage?!!!!!
OMG! SP's "unauthorized biography" is out, written by a People reporter, who had acess to the whole famdamily! Is anyone else up? I've checked all the other AK sites, no comment yet....So Bristol was at her aunt's while preggers? ...and Levi would visit? ...and she worked two jobs and attended public high school????????????????????????????
So they did have a windfall coming their way!!!
Come on friends...let's talk about this!
Penny
No wonder GVS has been in slumming AK, and the big interview on the day the book is released! The excerpts are laughable! The noose has to be tightening!
whachyualltink?
Penny
Extremely important new revelation from People magazine - if true this is dynamite and makes an 18th April birth date virtually impossible imo.
http://tinyurl.com/asbt6o
"The biography also reports that Trig's health was problematic from birth – he was born with a congenital heart defect typically found in half the babies with Down syndrome – but it cleared up on its own without surgery."
Kathleen PD Research Crew
I believe it was another governor who mentioned Sarah leaving the convention in a rush, although she saw her in the lobby, so it isn't as if Sarah made a bolt from the podium. The conference--and therefore Sarah's speech--was running late. At one time in the Wild Ride Tale she says the Dud looked into changing reservations, but at another time she says they left Texas "as scheduled." This tells us that the afternoon flight was already booked, and she was rushing to make her reservations. IS there a later flight to Anchorage?
There was no need to tell the Wild Ride story. With a fifth child she could easily have said she went into labor on the drive back from Anchorage. My SECOND child came in 45 minutes flat, first pang to baby--and I hadn't been flying around the country (and a history of long labors is meaningless: my first birth was an agonizing 18 hours).
I'm with those who think Sarah told Dad the "it started in Texas" lie to explain why she didn't call mom and dad when she first "went into labor." She then embellished it because she decided it made her sound heroic, and she thought all that drama would help cement her lie, thus combat the rumors about the baby being Bristol's or perhaps disguise an earlier birth date.
I think a more interesting question is why did Sarah wait so late to announce she was "pregnant"? Was it simply to avoid looking "fat" for so long? I personally believe that whenever he was born and whoever had him, Trig was always due in April rather than May. She said "May" both to make her pregnancy more believable (no one would have believed a flat-stomached woman wearing a pencil skirt was 8 months pregnant) and because of conception date problems.
Sarah is not accustomed to people challenging her lies, which is perhaps why she is so careless in them. This pregnancy hoax was amateurville from start to finish, yet except for us bloggers down here in the basement, she has gotten away with it. I find the effect she has on people (mainly men but also some women) creepy--which is why I will have to rely on others to watch tonight's Greta interview. That woman embarrasses herself.
Article about the new biography...
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20259357,00.html
Jennifer
Here it is: Trailblazer, the new SP book. Many details of pregnancy & Trig's birth & ensuing health problems:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20259357,00.html
I took the weekend off from this, sort of. More on that later.
Onething points out that SP's sudden departure from Texas non-stop (except for her speech, of course) to Mat-su could be the result of Trig being in distress and requiring hospital care. Hence, SP had to get there to claim him in public or the ruse was beaten.
Would a doctor sworn to care for the ill forestall taking a child to the hospital long enough for SP to give her speech and fly back to Texas? Hmmm. That's a tough one. Maybe, but unlikely. It depends on the circumstances.
It could be that SP planned to roll out Trig early, rather than fake a full-term pregnancy and risk longer exposure to the public. That would make sense. The 'wild ride' only made it that much more difficult to sell, however. And remember, that story didn't come out until after they produced Trig for everyone to see. They needed an excuse for SP first being in Texas then abruptly leaving to go straight to ... a hospital to deliver Trig. You need a REALLY good story to explain it all. They did the best they could.
A planned 'surprise' early Trig rollout would happen when nobody was watching. SP would just show up at Mat-su one evening after being at home in Wasilla and there would be Trig. If that had been the story, none of us would be spending out time investigating. Texas to Alaska to Trig plus the March 5 announcement made the story.
I just want to throw one more thought out there. I see a lot of negative, personal comments about SP. Some have called her 'dangerous' (no pun intended). She's not my cup of tea either, but if she did fake her pregnancy, her motives were certainly mixed. her daughter had to agree to the deception and everything that would have to go with it. That would only happen if the daughter and family were behind it all the way. Hence, her motives would be selfless and selfish.
She has monumentally bad judgment and should not be in charge of anything important. (Sorry, Alaska. Fix it next election.) But as a human being and a politician, there are far worse than SP.
Dangerous
Sorry here it is Trailblazer - new SP book in tiny url:
http://tinyurl.com/aw9xn2
I have a summary of all the accounts that I found of the labor and birth story, which I would be happy to share, if someone wants to tell me how to attach a pdf...
I may be late to the party but I looked at the Alaska stock photos and noticed Judy Patrick appearing frequently and when I googled her I found that she's a photographer! That could be helpful!!
"Whenever Palin has to play defense, she goes on Greta. It might have worked with "the base" during the campaign. Now, not so much...."
It'll still play with her base. I suspect she'll think that's all she needs to do- remember, she thinks her POV is the majority one. Just a lie, a whopping big lie, and she's fine. I don't think she thinks other people really matter. Just get the lie on the record, and she's good with it.
"To save face, to promote her belief systems and spur her career, Palin will stop at nothing to promote herself. Fact."
Not necessarily. While this appears to be true, and I believe she would do lots of things a person with integrity would not do, I think there may be things she wouldn't. Homicide, maybe. Something extreme.
"She believes she is the handmaiden of God's wishes. Fact."
Assumption. Has she said this? The fact that it's preached in her church doesn't mean she believes this. Sometimes, people don't really believe what's preached in their church but go for other reasons, like they think it's good for the kids, or some such. In fact, even if she said this, we don't know that she believes it; we do know she's a liar.
"I think it is interesting that Sherry Johnston's lawyer is a non-Palin fan. That contradicts my theory that Palin was going to pay for Sherry's legal fees, so she'd get a top-notch lawyer, increasing the chance of an acquittal"
Oh, it made me wonder if Sherry's planning to put pressure on Sarah to lean on the judge- I don't know the judge and will not speculate on whether s/he can be leaned upon! (My lawyer made me write that.) Remember, Levi knows a lot. He knows whether he likely got Bristol pregnant, he probably knows if she was pregnant before, he's been "inside" the inner workings of the Palin Family- how much would he tell his mom? How much would she tell her lawyer? How much would her lawyer tell Sarah Palin? My immediate thought is that they hoped to apply pressure for, if not an acquittal, a commuted sentence or some such.
Wedding: Levi, if not others, said they would marry in the summer. That would be after the May trial date.
He and Bristol very well may have broken up but probably there will be no need to announce that until summer or thereabouts. Meanwhile, he can openly live at his own home to be supportive of his mom.
Wild Ride: I think Sarah added something to the wild ride story to explain the fact that Trig's birth was induced. CBJ put that in her medical statement, so I believe Bristol or whoever gave birth was induced. Leaking fluid is perfect: induce within 24 hours.
I also think she added that leaking fluid story when talking to her family, but (great-)Grandpa Heath spilled the beans. Rather than invoking privacy or backtracking then, she stuck with it and elaborated, weaving her tangled web.
Not too complicated: As to why Palin would think she could pull off this "massive" deception, I return to my earlier quoting of someone saying she was "terminally pretty." I know this only from observation -- not from personal experience! -- but many attractive, charismatic people are accustomed to getting their way and being given the benefit of the doubt. Certainly helped in getting elected, but Alaskans and most Americans eventually look below the surface. She's finally figuring that out. In over her head, not ready for prime time.
Tonight I make an exception and watch Fox News Channel.
With relation to that People article that mentions, "The biography also reports that Trig's health was problematic from birth – he was born with a congenital heart defect typically found in half the babies with Down syndrome – but it cleared up on its own without surgery."...
The very first article I Googled on the subject mentions nothing about congenital heart diseases "clearing up" on their own.
Rather, "Depending on the size of an atrial septal defect or a ventricular septal defect, surgery can be postponed even longer, keeping in mind the risk of developing irreversible high pressures in the lungs."
Another article mentions that some DS infant congenital heart defects can be treated with medications, but that doesn't mean the condition "cleared up on its own".
And yet another article at The American Heart Association (scroll down to "Septal Defects") describes risks, such as endocarditis, in greater detail.
Concomitant lung high blood pressure can occur with these congenital heart diseases, which is quite serious. In these cases at some point surgery certainly would be indicated, and watchful waiting is in order.
Some of the public display of Trig Palin, such as at the Iron Dog, and in those campaign crowds, just goes against what one would think would be optimum care of an infant that's this compromised, health-wise: with a known heart problem, known eye problems, and maybe hearing problems.
Another paragraph from that newest People article describing the "Trailblazer" book:
"While Bristol was pregnant last year, she was living in Anchorage with her aunt and uncle, Heather and Kurt Bruce, and working at two espresso shops – while also attending West High School. Levi was 40 miles away in Wasilla, but, "there was certainly no ban on them dating," reports Trailblazer. 'Levi used to drive to Anchorage to take Bristol out.' "
I'm asking myself when I read that paragraph, and RE-read it, "WHEN last year? About a year ago, or more?"
Is that paragraph a recounting of more Palin family hearsay that's as purposely vague and subject to interpretation -- depending on whether you're a Palinista or a skeptic -- as the CB-J letter?
Or am I reading the paragraph wrong?
Well, it looks like Bristol Palin's baby Tripp is real after all - he was shown on Entertainment Tonight this evening. It clearly wasn't Trigg. What does anyone here think now?
Neil said:
Well, it looks like Bristol Palin's baby Tripp is real after all - he was shown on Entertainment Tonight this evening. It clearly wasn't Trigg. What does anyone here think now?
Well Neil, we say what many of us said all the time that if Bristol was going produce a baby then the baby would not be presented until sometime in mid February. This is exactly what happened.
We were beginning to doubt that there was a Tripp for a minute there but he is finally here. Why would you think that they would wait to mid Feb. to bring him out when he was born in late December? Why not show him on the 3rd day after birth, like they did Trig, who remember was born with DS and some other health problems!
According to Bristol, Tripp is just 'perfect' a real 'joy'.
Dangerous: I DO believe she is dangerous because she will say and do anything for power. Like Bush, she has no there, there, so whomever her handlers are, she will front for them.
The theocrats are her handlers. The NEOcon warmongers are also interested in her. They will happily use the churchy people to get elected and since they don't care about women or human rights, we can expect some major ugliness.
Look at her rallies. She didn't care that they got ugly. They loved HER and so, that is all that matters.
Maybe the detectives at Palin's Deceptions would like to have a look at Sarah Palin's expenses claims for the period covering her pregnancy with Trig.
It's very interesting...
Specially the claims that include the actual birth date. That particular entry goes from April 4 to June 3, with claims for a zillion things without specifying any dates.
http://fin.admin.state.ak.us/dof/financial_reports/resource/SB155Report2008.pdf
Post a Comment