I just spoke to her, and she wants you all to know that she's feeling more like herself and is preparing a new post with some very interesting photos that are sure to poke holes in more of Sarah's carefully crafted claims.
Until Audrey gets the post prepared and up, please consider this an open thread. But as moderator let me gently remind you that an open thread should not be considered a free-for-all. The general rules of civility apply, as does the long-standing restriction against topics that have been deemed forbidden by the blog owner.
I noted in an earlier thread that in Audrey's absence, Patrick, Kathleen, Mary G. and other members of the PD research team have done a marvelous job in keeping the discussion moving. There are other members of the team hard at work, too, and if there was ever a group that deserved a round of virtual applause it is these people.
So as Sarah Palin would say, give them a shout out. And look for Audrey to be back soon.
Morgan
PD Moderator
457 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 457 Newer› Newest»Kathleen--thanks for setting the record straight.
AKPetMom--the boy I am referring to is NOT Chris Ray. (that's a whole 'nother story) I don't recall this other boy's name, but he is white and from AK.
Paper Pregnant said:
The other thought I had, when learning that Sarah and Bristol went to NYC several months into someone's pregnancy with Trig is that perhaps Sarah took Bristol along in an attempt to procure a later-term abortion.
NakedTruth said:
I thought the same thing. I just thought it was rather strange that SP took Bristol to this event in NY and not the other girls (Willow and/or Piper). To my knowledge, this NY trip is the only one with just SP and Bristol traveling alone.
Also it is my belief that SP found out that Bristol was pregnant around the end of Sept. or early Oct. '07. Right after the September 2007 family photo (Bristol wearing a dress.) that many of us thought showed Bristol with a 4 month baby bump. I would think that SP never would have allowed that photo if she knew that Bristol was actually pregnant and not just bloated.
We have not seen any photos of this function they supposedly attended in NY. Makes me wonder if they really attended and what was the real purpose of this trip. I bet Bristol had a doctor's appointment.
I enjoy reading and sometimes participating in the back and forth of this blog; bravo to Audrey and all her assistants! We can agree on some parts and disagree on other parts of this deception. I’m not in the Bristol x2 camp as I’ve stated before, I think that the simplest scenario is that Trig Palin doesn’t have a Palin woman as a birthmother. SP couldn’t control the birthmother as “easily” as if it were one of her daughters. Hence the late “fake” pregnancy etc. If SP could “hide” Bristol it would be easy enough to “hide” another person in the same way; they might have even had a friendship. I also believe that SP didn’t even involve her extended family in the deception until it started to unravel at certain places along the way.
London Bridges,
I looked at adn site you listed with Piper. The 2006 pic with Bristol and the green baby bump is also on there pic #30. It is odd that they mention "Trig was born in 2008". If the pic was from 2006 why would you even need to mention anything about Trig? Also where was Track in 2006 Michigan?
I thought it might be after Audreys Blog from 2006, but I have second thoughts. Because my first reaction when I saw the photo was Bristol was preggo. But maybe she was also preggo in 2006? Nothing would phase me!
LisanTx said, "Sarah and Todd own two rural cabins/land jointly with friends. One of these friends is Brad & Carolyn Hanson"
Not the parents of Track's girlfriend, but Brad was Sarah's rumored affair in the 90's. Todd and Brad dissolved their business partnership. Surprised they still own property together.
I do not believe the Sarah & Brad rumor. Just interesting to see his name resurface.
Sarah can't be talking about us as the bloggers in PJs: Morgan (rightly) stops posting us at night! Must be some other bloggers . . .
"Sarah can't be talking about us as the bloggers in PJs: Morgan (rightly) stops posting us at night! Must be some other bloggers . ."
ROFL!
Alas, it's sad but true. Even moderators need to sleep.
Thanks for the biggest laugh I've had all day.
And now I'm off to slip into my pajamas, which as we all know are the Official Garment of Sarah Palin Critics Everywhere.
Dangerous said, "Bristol and Levi were already engaged for all practical purposes in April of 2008. Why hide the baby then if Bristol and Levi, the presumptive parents, were already going to get married? Where's the huge scandal?"
Could be Palin thought a pregnant daughter hurt her chances of being picked McCain's VP, being unsure how her religious right base would react. But people here are suggesting the HUGE scandal was that Levi wasn't Trig's dad. Maybe even a dad of another race. Or someone related to Bristol. HUGE scandal, at least to Sarah.
I think not only did Bristol give birth to the two Tr's but also that Levi fathered both. While Tripp may look like Levi's baby pictures, Trig at the RNC often resembled Levi, to me. Levi kissing him and, according to People, babysitting him with Bristol suggest that as well.
It's possible that until Trig was born they didn't know for sure if Levi was the father, since Bristol was dating others that summer between Juneau and Wasilla High. If they cared to know, and if an amnio was really done, they could have known in December.
Other things I find interesting…SP makes a “friend” comment in the GVS February 2009 interview about that Bristol handles motherhood better than her friends would (or something like that), Bristol makes a “friend” comment in the same interview about her friend told SP and Todd about the Tripp pregnancy, Sherry Johnston in the European tabloid interview “seems” like a mom that is upset over the fact that Levi would rather spend time with SP over her because of what he could “get” out of it, and Sadie seems “hurt” over her “friend” Bristol not letting her see Tripp in the Gawker MySpace blog where she was commenting to her current boyfriend’s mother.
Regarding statewide elected officials and adoption:
Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas adopted two young, blonde children when she was late 50's and her husband was in his 60's. I don't recall the media speculating, but some of the electorate did, as to whether she was moved to the top of a list, when older parents often need to go abroad to adopt. Some people wondered whether it was really a private adoption among family members.
I just wondered whether the agency checked out the nanny, because as far as I can tell, Kay's busy with the Senate in DC and on the fund-raiser, see and be seen circuit back in Texas, and her husband is a busy attorney, and I can't imagine there is much hands-on parenting done.
Now she is going to run for Gov in the Rep. primary against Palin's friend Rick Perry, but I very much doubt there will be any scandal or disapproval of her adopting the children.
Sen. Hutchison established herself in Texas politics long before she adoted the children. Palin may have felt her hold was still too new, too tenuous, to opt to adopt a special needs child. And with Bristol rumored to be pregnant, the private family adoption speculation was a certainty.
So I can see why Palin might decide to fake rather than adopt.
Marcy,
You asked why we believe that Sarah (and, presumably, Todd) legally adopted Trig. Of course, we don't KNOW. While I can't speak for the other bloggers, I can speak for my own beliefs. Sarah is claiming Trig as her own. I believe that either Bristol, Willow, or Molly (Sarah's sister), or possibly someone else (such as a friend or church member), gave birth to Trig, and he is now in the care of Sarah and Todd, because the birth mother felt she could not raise him for whatever reason, such as the difficulties raising a child with DS. Sarah and Todd have such resources: money and good insurance coverage. A legal adoption of Trig by Sarah and Todd would give Trig access to these resources. While of course I have not seen the details of their medical plan, I assume that a legally adopted child would have the same coverage as any biological child. I have not heard of a medical plan that distinguishes between adopted and biological children in terms of coverage. If Bristol or Willow gave birth to Trig, mom (& thus babe) would lose this coverage at a certain point, such as age 18, or age 22 if in school, or anyway sometime in the next few years. Then what? Young adults frequently lack medical coverage, and poor Trig will suffer, as he will need lots of medical care, and insurance coverage is a must. (I think everyone should have coverage, but someone with special needs REALLY needs it. 20-year-olds usually are quite healthy.) Thus, the best way for Trig to get medical coverage is to be the legal child of a family with coverage. Sarah & Todd are such a couple. Again, I don't know the details of their plan, but it is possible that Trig will be covered even after reaching adulthood because of his disability. (My plan works that way.) Now, if Sarah and Todd raised Trig as their own without legally adopting him, how long would he be covered? Not very. What if he is considered a foster child? Would he be covered? Maybe, maybe not. So my belief is that legal adoption by S & T is in progress, if not complete, simply because it's in Trig's best interest. That's not to say that Bristol (assuming she's Trig's birth mom) isn't "raising" him.
Anyway, that's my opinion.
Is anyone here an Alaska state employee, or an employee of the medical insurance company that covers those employees, and can thus speak about the plan Sarah & her family would have?
TruthPatrol,
Another interesting friend...Anna Arodzero. From Patrick's post yesterday:
A family friend answered the door Monday at the Johnston home, outside Wasilla. When a reporter mentioned Bristol Palin, the friend, Anna Arodzero, said, 'You can contact the McCain-Palin headquarters.'
Anna Arodzero is in fact an associate at the top-notch Public Relations/Lobbying firm “Gallatin Public Affairs”, which seems to have strong ties to Republicans.
Saw this in a Lisa Demer article from September:
***What if her own daughter were raped and became pregnant? Palin was asked that in a Nov. 2, 2006, debate that aired statewide on public television. "I would chose [sic] life," Palin answered.
It's legal in Alaska for minors to get an abortion without their parents' consent, though Palin wants to change that. "So Bristol could have gone off and had an abortion and Todd and Sarah wouldn't have known anything about it," said Lewis of Alaska Right to Life.***
In the Greta interview, Bristol emphasizes that having Tripp was her choice, not her mother's. Apparently that is true. She could have had an abortion without Sarah knowing, at least in theory.
In the article, Palin says, "I would choose life," but it's her daughter's choice, not Sarah's. (And Sarah would "choose," although she wants to make it so there's no choice allowed.)
By the way, Andrew Halcro's blog commends Palin for her appointment of pro-choice Judge (Ms.) Morgan Christen: "In a move that should give social conservatives great pause, Governor Sarah Palin has appointed a former board member of Planned Parenthood to the Alaska State Supreme Court." Palin followed the law and chose from the names given to her rather than throwing a fit as the previous Governor did. 'Tis reassuring.
Oriole & LisanTX,
Is Chris Ray that young black man who claimed to be Trig's father on a YouTube video several months ago? I thought his claim had been discredited. (Sorry, I don't know where or when I read this.)
Trig does not appear to have a black father, but, then again, neither does Carol Channing.
Kathleen,
After watching the SP Special Olympics video, I noticed SP spoke about patting Trig on his back when he loses, just like they did with their other kids. I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure no one loses in Special Olympics. Just shows how lazy and uninformed this woman is! One other thing, shouldn't Trig be wearing those glasses all the time? We've never heard about his therapy routine, but I'm guessing he is more successful when he can see!
This woman never ceases to amaze!
Check out mudflats. A recent post uncovers info about the judge SP did not select, ______ Smith. He was the one who pushed up Sherry Johnston's court date to May 18. You know how our girl hates to be crossed!
penny
Dangerous,
You asked, if Bristol & Levi were engaged, for all practical purposes, why hide the fact that Bristol is Trig's mom?
Because Sarah & Todd wanted to adopt him, and it would look weird for them to do so with Bristol & Levi being engaged. If Trig did not have DS, there might not have been any adoption, so Bristol & Levi could openly produce Trig.
Imagine how it would look if Sarah said, "Bristol & Levi are engaged; they just had a baby, but Todd and I are adopting him because he has DS." Ick.
Patrick,
You think Bristol knew she was pregnant in June 2007. So she got pregnant in May 2007 or earlier. Nine months would be February 2008. But you believe Trig's birth in February was so premature as to require hospitalization. What do I have wrong?
Someone asked why Bristol said she was "surprised" at finding she was pregnant.
Maybe she and Levi DID use birth control, but it failed. It happens.
Penny,
There are winners and losers in the Special Olympics. I know because my 18-year-old son, who is autistic, competes in them every year.
To say there everyone is a winner sounds nice, but the Special Olympics is an athletic competition and there are some good athletes. And as with any athletic competition, not everyone can place first. I will say that I've never seen a case of poor sportsmanship or a singles sore loser at a Special Olympics gathering, though. In that way, they are all all winners.
So while Sarah often gets things wrong, this wasn't one of those times. If Trig grows up to be a Special Olympian than I'm sure he'll get his share of medals and pats on the back, just like the other competitors.
Dangerous said;
"The SP-is-Trig's-mother acceptors -- such as Craig -- can rely on this logic to maintain a high level of doubt, even against the weight of evidence that SP was never pregnant."
************
You forgot to use the words "speculative/circumstancial" in front of the word evidence.
But that's okay. If people are comfortable with that level of proof, then I am equally comfortable with the rationale I've discussed for Sarah being the mother.
And yes, I agree that a PR rep being at the Johnston house to deflect questions is no bombshell. The campaign wanted to manage the announcement of Bristol's current pregnancy and not let the press get ahead of the story. Just what you might expect to have happen.
Johnston said on his blog that he met Bristol in August, 2007, but I remember someone saying they dated off and on for a couple of years. So, which is it? I don't know.
B,
thanks a lot for mentioning this important point again.
Yes, I strongly believe that Bristol got pregnant in late May/early June 2007 (this will be discussed in more detail here in the blog at a later point).
Regarding the timeframe: We just don't know when Trig was born! He could have been born prematurely even before February. He certainly would have required hospitalization, as he was born with a hole in his heart (see Lorenzo Benet in "Trailblazer"). As a premature DS baby, he could have been tiny at birth.
We don't have certainty about all the details yet, but I am convinced that the timeframe is correct in general.
Patrick (PD research)
Patrick,
Hate to nitpick, but you really need to say "possibly" or "probably" rather than "certainly" in this sentence:
He certainly would have required hospitalization, as he was born with a hole in his heart (see Lorenzo Benet in "Trailblazer").
Hospitalization implies more than a standard two-day release. JillyG has provided evidence of her DS baby with a small hole in her heart who did not have to remain in the hospital. I have previously mentioned a family member who went home normally after birth with a small hole that was never treated or closely monitored and closed on its own within a year. So "certainly" is too strong a word.
That said, you are right that we don't know when Trig was born, but we do know what he looked like around April 18 and May 5. I don't think he looked like a 2-3 month old baby who had been due in February. Perhaps he was so premature that his growth was slowed, as someone here said can happen. But at the moment, this is a big block between me and your theory.
Would be ironic if Sarah passed off Trig as a newborn when he was two months old and passed Tripp off as a two month old when he was a newborn! Reverse consistency.
To Craig,
This is direct evidence -- not just speculation and circumstantial evidence -- that SP wasn't pregnant. The photographic evidence and eye-witness testimony points to the lack of obvious physical signs of pregnancy, when she should have shown some.
Also, we have the direct evidence -- through SP's own statements which may be used to against her -- that she intentional disguised her appearance vis-a-vis the pregnancy. We can accept that statement but we don't have to accept her stated motive (to disguise her pregnancy). We can see the physical disguise. We can't see her motive. But since she admitted to deception, we can assume verbal deception as well in her stated motive. That's good evaluation of circumstantial evidence because it is supported by the phyical evidence.
The circumstantial evidence that you can use to rebut the Trig in Feb. or non-Palin woman theories is that SP would have no motive to fake in those cases. I see contributors on this board continue to attribute motives to her, but they don't make any sense. No reasonable person would apply those motives.
Back to basics:
Can we all agree that if SP were caught faking a pregnancy it would doom her political career?
I think the answer to that is Yes. Faking is an all-in move.
Doesn't it stand to reason that the consequences of the real mother being discovered would have to be nearly as severe for her?
Again, I think the answer must be Yes.
If SP intended to fake, wouldn't the motives of the birth mother have to align with SP's motives for SP to believe the scheme could work?
In this case, I know the answer is Yes.
If SP needed the help of anyone outside the family (e.g., the mother's doctor and her own), would they go along with a strictly political motive for SP?
Probably not.
When proposing any theory in this case, you have to be brutally frank about whether that theory matches these circumstances. There are evidentiary problems with all existing theories (including Willow), but at least Willow being Trig's mother correctly addresses the fundamental issues listed above.
I still can't see why SP would fake rather than claim adoption. Whatever issues may come with claiming to adopt are multiplied by a faked pregnancy attempt.
Dangerous
Windy City Woman---No, I am NOT talking about the young black man who claimed to be Trig's father.
I saw the MySpace site of a young white man who claimed he loved Bristol Palin (NOTHING about a child). I don't remember his name. He was young, likely in high school in Alaska.
I saw his site and several other AK teens' pages while I was looking through MySpace sites back in the Fall. I did not save a link. I don't know if his claim was true or a hoax. I'm just passing along what I saw.
Dangerous said, "Can we all agree that if SP were caught faking a pregnancy it would doom her political career? I think the answer to that is Yes."
Hurt, yes. Doom, only probably. Would depend on how and when she came clean on it, though her window to recover may have already closed. Some will forgive deception intended, however wrongly, to protect one's child.
“Faking” pregnancy for any of SP’s biological children is rational in my opinion. Let’s use this as a scenario: a boy “knocks up” an underage girl, dad of the underage girl is furious and wants the boy held accountable, an agreement is arranged for the care of the young lady while she is pregnant and maybe afterwards as well, emotions of the boy and young lady run the gamut from giving up the baby for adoption to keeping the baby themselves, once paternity is established (if done by amnio they could have found out about the DS), at that point it was just too much for the young “couple” so they decide on adoption, mother steps in to “fake” because the baby will be cared for and they won’t have to explain where the baby came from, and if there were statutory rape rumors then those would most likely go away because “look someone was pregnant”. I am of the opinion that during this time frame there was more than one rumor going around about the Palin children so I like to look at more than one scenario.
" We can accept that statement but we don't have to accept her stated motive (to disguise her pregnancy). We can see the physical disguise. We can't see her motive. But since she admitted to deception, we can assume verbal deception as well in her stated motive."
We can assume it, but I don't think we can rely on it. She might prefer not to openly lie if not using a flat-out lie suits her purpose. We all know she has lied in some instances, and she has used deceptive language in others.
Dangerous writes:
"Can we all agree that if SP were caught faking a pregnancy it would doom her political career?
I think the answer to that is Yes. Faking is an all-in move.?"
Actually, I've read and seen enough about Palin "true believers" and such, that I think she could spin, baby, spin her way out of this. To you and me, yes, the faking should end her career.
If (and when) she spins it as "I was just doing what a momma bear does and, also, too, to protect my child, also"...... her base will eat it up as FURTHER proof that she is the next coming, and we are mean p.j. bloggers (said as I sit here typing this in a suit and heels over my lunch hour).
So, no, I'm not sure that even if we prove she faked it (to the level of MSM acceptance), it would cause her career to crumble. HOWEVER, the upside is the longer she denies, denies, denies, the better our chances of showing it was about something bigger than "protecting her daughter".
If you are lurking, Ms. Sarah.... you best come out with a tearful apology now, ala Duke Cunningham, and take your beatin' so you can clean out the skeletons in prep for your next run................!
Yellowgirl
Patrick, Morgan, Audrey, Kathleen, et al....
Anything we p.j. bloggers can do to speed the "coming soon" along? I'm sure if you gave out some homework assignments, folks here would be more than willing to help out......
Yellowgirl
Chris Ray is NOT the fellow who posted the YouTube video falsely claiming to be the father of Bristol's baby. Chris Ray is the Palmer High student who had a MySpace page that said "I love Bristol Palin more than anything in the world!" In early September, he changed his mood to "worried," and then suddenly his page was gone. I've seen one photo of him online (which I can't find now), and he looks more mixed race or Native than black to me. That is to say, he is not very dark-complected. His father is a basketball coach at one of the schools.
Hey Patrick,
OK here are the first of many questions I have about the GOV's travel report...
Why does the first page (the only detailed travel reimbursement page for the GOV, by the way) say "Page 1 of 2" and there is no page 2?
Her outbound ticket JNU-ANC 4/14/08 027-2118-805-997 was $275.50, and was puchased on 3/19/08.
The return ticket ANC-JNU 5/29/08 027-2121-671-362 was $519.70. Not sure of purchase date...
WHY is the RETURN fare so much higher??
Why is there no mention of the tickets puchased for the trip to Dallas and back on page 1?
More importantly:
WHERE ARE THE DIARY PAGES FOR FEB 18 - FEB 29?
Thanks,
P.Bugg
Dangerous, maybe I just need to understand what is different about the way you use the phrase direct evidence.
Do a few photos of how a woman doesn't appear to look pregnant enough somehow rise above speculation to something more proven? I'm no lawyer, but it seems likely that if you used that evidence in a courtroom it would still be deemed as speculative.
At best, it would seem to be a visual aid tool for the jury if it was paired up with hard information like medical records and first-hand testimony.
Here are the OFFICIAL calendar entries for the infamous date of 4/18/08:
"Bristol: Interview Assistance/Set Up w/KTUU (Wasilla)
GOV: Interview w/KTVA and ADN (Wasilla)
Todd: Interview w/KBYR (Wasilla)
Trig's Birth
WASILLA"
Interview Assistance?
Wait, WHAT???
Why are we even mentioning Bristol on this page?
Oh and here was another good one:
March 08, 2008:
Car Rental - Budget - etc.
Marriott Springhill Suites - etc.
FAIRBANKS
GOV Telephone interview/Sean Cockerham ADN (Fairbanks)
then this:
"Piper attended - Fairbanks Performing Arts Event on Governor's behalf (FBKS - Performing Arts Center)"
Say WHAT?? PIPER attends an event instead of her MOTHER? How old is this kid again?
No luck in finding out what event she attended (yet)!
The seriousness to SP's political career for being caught faking a pregnancy seems to be somewhat in dispute. She could certainly kiss goodbye any hope of a serious national profile. The huge deception would never get past national media and voters. Perhaps she might be able to beg forgiveness from Alaska voters.
But if you think that getting caught faking wouldn't be completely debilitating, why fake it at all? Certainly, getting caught faking is much more serious than having a teen daughter get pregnant, or facing questions about adoption. If the adoption ploy fails, it's easier to argue privacy and protecting one's child than a length charade involving lies, costumes and (worst of all) claiming to have given birth to a child that you didn't.
What I'm saying is whatever scale you want to use, the ratio of damage from a failed faked-pregnancy scheme is the same compared to a failed adoption scheme or just telling the truth about the source of the infant. To argue anything else is ridiculous.
Next multiply the odds of getting caught in a faked pregnancy versus the damage, the odds and of getting caught in a faked adoption versus its damage, and compare that to the damage related to revealing a teen daughter getting pregnant.
For those her prefer the rational math:
F = Caught Faking Damage
A = False Adoption Damage
P = Pregnant Teen Damage
C = Odds Caught Faking (decimal percentage equivalent)
O = Odds adoption scheme would failed
Find the lesser of the following:
C x F .or. O x A .or. P
to limit your prospective damage.
To not just bite the bullet and admit your teen daughter was pregnant,
C x F < P
AND
O x A < P
To select faking over adoption,
C x F < O x A
I'd say that no matter what, F > A and A > P.
so the circumstances for selecting to fake require that the odds of a having a successful fake must be better than a successful false adoption.
For example, with maximum damage of 100, if
P = 30
F = 90
A = 40
C = .30
O = .20
then
C x F = 27
O x A = 8
one would choose O x A (adoption).
I encourage everyone to insert their own numbers and see which choice produces the least damage and, hence, represents the best choice.
This way, we can argue math rather than qualitative judgments. I think you'll find that since F > A, and C almost always greater than O, nobody would ever choose to fake. To choose to fake, C must be less than O. Since C for a closely-watched person like the Governor, O has to be very large (perhaps nearly 100%) since C is almost certainly 50% (.5) or higher.
Further, P must also be very high because the damage is all or nothing, and people are naturally risk averse.
I know people hate math, but that's the basis for rationality. P for Willow is much higher than P for Bristol. You also must consider not just P for SP but also for the person that she's faking for. In that case, P for Willow is far higher than P for Bristol.
Based on the mathematical analysis, I don't see how political motives alone raise P high enough.
Dangerous
mdlw56, can you give us a cite for the statement that Levi Johnston said on his blog that met Bristol in August 07? We know for sure that they knew each other before that.
Dangerous-
I think when you resort to ad hominem attacks (ala "to argue anything else is ridiculous") you lessen your overall point.
But, to answer this:
"What I'm saying is whatever scale you want to use, the ratio of damage from a failed faked-pregnancy scheme is the same compared to a failed adoption scheme or just telling the truth about the source of the infant. To argue anything else is ridiculous."
You are thinking *rationally*. Sociopaths, narcissists, arrogant types and others do not think rationally. (Disclaimer: not calling Palin any of those, but saying that it is a possibility).
Why didn't Nixon own up to the Watergate break in? He was arrogant thought he could get away with it. Often, the cover up is worse than the crime.
If Clinton had simply admitted the affair with Monica, the Repugs couldn't have touched him with the lying under oath scandal. So why did he take the greater risk, face impeachment, and lose his law license? Because he thought he could get away with the lie.
Clearly, if Sarah thought about it rationally, she'd see that a pregnant teen is better than a faked pg scandal, but she *never* thought she'd get caught. (The history books and jails are filled with those who never thought that they would get caught.)
So, your attempt to say since it makes *more sense* to adopt or admit teen pg then risk a fake pg scandal, I say.... what does sense have to do with it? Really?
(And you can stop calling me names now!) (-:
Yellowgirl
http://www.fairbanksconcert.org/FCA_07-08_Renewal_Pages.pdf
So Piper attended the Turtle Island String Quartet in Fairbanks on March 8, 2008? Hmmmm, didn't know that Piper had cultivated such an interest in classical music at such a young age. WTF?
The fact that Piper attended this concert instead of Sarah leads me to believe that Trig may have made his appearance on this weekend, regardless of who birthed him. It was right after the pregnancy announcement. Either Sarah was in Fairbanks and went into labor or someone else had an emergency on 3/8 that rendered SP unable to attend the scheduled concert.
But really, an 7 year old attending a classical music event alone and being able to sit thru 2 hours of "boring" music? Someone else had to be there with her, just someone that is not mentioned because that person was not officially travelling w/the Palins.
I know that Piper is very precocious for her age but to stand in for the Gov at a public event would still be beyond her scope of talents at 7 years of age.
Punkinbugg,
thanks a lot for your efforts - I will try to find answers to your questions and reply asap. I think that one of our team members has the full schedule for February.
Dangerous,
your post is interesting, I don't think that we had anything like this before. I doubt, however, that SP understands maths well enough.
Patrick (PD research)
There's been some running back and forth discusion about this evidence doesn't rise above a reasonable doubt, is speculative, is only circumstantial, etc. And therefore isn't definititive, and theory x, y or z needs to be discarded.
But this isn't a court of law, and Audrey can't subpeona medical records, birth certificates, order DNA testing, etc. So PD has to solve the question of who is Trig's birth mother by other means. So it may be a largely circumstantial case. So what? Circumstantial cases are good enough for a conviction.
In another reminder of one of SP's worst performances during the campaign, Katie Couric has just one a prestigious journalism award for her SP interviews during the campaign -- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/10/katie-courics-sarah-palin_n_173661.html
I personally will be forever grateful to Katie Couric for her role in exposing how uninformed and uncurious about the world Sarah Palin was.
***MODERATOR NOTE****
We've had some discussion of late about various MySpace pages put up by teen friends of the Palins.
It's been the policy of this blog for some time not to publish links to these pages, whether they are existing or cached. These are kids, after all.
Audrey, who is on the mend from her flu and busy preparing an update, isn't really thrilled with names of kids being mentioned here.
So from here on we're going to cool it a bit with mention of these kids by name.
Chalk it up to lax moderation that I let things go a bit far, and may I apologize in advance for the whiplash any of you may get from the decision.
And my verification word is "flavaul"????
(And you can stop calling me names now!) (-:
***MODERATOR NOTE***
Please, if anyone is inclined to call names just step away from the computer and come back when you feel a little calmer.
I know these debates can get heated, but we're all on the same side here.
It would truly break my heart to read a brilliant comment and then have to turn around and reject it because it contained Excessive Snark.
;-)
Dangerous,
Interesting analysis. But flawed. Math cannot predict human behavior or reasoning. Look no further than the meltdown of the financial markets. The best MIT math and science graduates hired by JP Morgan and others designed complex financial instruments (CDS & derivatives)that worked based on math models. Enter human behavior. Fail.
THANK YOU, AKPET MOM for the LINK to concert schedule in Fairbanks.
So Piper attended the Turtle Island String Quartet in Fairbanks on March 8, 2008?
Hmmm
Was that a matinee? Because according to their FLIGHT SCHEDULE, they (GOV and Piper) departed Fairbanks at 6:42pm on AS#140, arriving in ANC at 7:42pm.
Interestingly, there is a 3rd record locator and a 3rd seat confirmed, but no name is mentioned. REC LOC IZHNNC, JQMKDZ and HTMQEB - seats 11F, 11E and 15F. 3rd person sits 4 rows back on the window.
I've had my eye on that weekend myself. When they left JNU, it makes no sense for them to overnight in ANC each way, when there are plenty of flights that connect to Fairbanks, or just make a stop, then proceed to Fairbanks.
Now this mysterious high-brow event that PIPER attends "on the Governor's behalf"??!
What the heck...?
P.Bugg
My word verification is "Marco". Can I get a "Polo" up in here?
Poor Piper. She has to sit through rallies, speeches, and classical music concerts. She doesn't get paid, just airfare for these events. Aren't there child labor laws that would restrict what she does?
To answer Yellowgirl, challenging reasoning as ridiculous is not 'ad hominem' attack.
Decisions are not always logical, but if someone makes a decision that is against their natural interests, it is fair to deem it irrational. SP may have faked her pregnancy because she wanted the attention and was planning an regular adoption, but that would be irrational because the damage from the faking coming out is huge, and the damage to regular adopting is close to zero.
So if someone argues that the political damage she would face from adopting any child is HUGE, then they must agree that the political damage from a failed faked pregnancy is also HUGE. Otherwise, their argument is ridiculous.
Some parties have tried to suggest that adoption wasn't a viable option for SP because that's a choice with pregnancy just "happens". They've argued that voters would be more accepting of an accidental pregnancy than a planned adoption. I counter that both of those situations are damage small d, while a failed pregnancy would create Damage capital D. But I think everyone would agree that if you assign capital D damage to a planned adoption, you have to assign capital D damage to a failed faked pregnancy.
If you do the math formula I've posted above for various scenarios, I think you'll see what I mean.
My values for SP:
P = 60
F = 90
A = 70 (60 + 10)
C = .5
O = ???
F x C = 45 (less than P)
A x O = ???
O must be greater than .65 (roughly 2/3 chance of false adoption being discovered) in order for SP to rationally decide to fake.
An example of irrational, ridiculous weighting:
P = 100
A = 90
F = 50
C = .1
O = .5
How can the damage from A or F be less than P? P must always be added to whatever damage the discovered deception generates, because P happens with A or F.
Try it with your own numbers and calculate whether your motives and theories make sense. For example, if you say Trig was born in Feb to Bristol and nobody knew it, C goes up but O goes down.
If Bristol was already married to Levi, P goes down.
If SP plans the wild ride, C goes up.
If SP waits to start faking, C goes up.
If SP wants to seek VP nod back in February, F goes way up. A stays about the same. We can argue about P.
Dangerous
One more date of interest, and I'm sure Dangerous brought it up:
March 28, 2008.
Willow flew from JNU to ANC, and there is no indication that she ever flew again until JUNE 12th, 2008 (ANC back to JNU)
Of course they could have bought her a ticket with their OWN money to return to SCHOOL and finish that semester. Their. Own. Money.
I found the 2007/08 Juneau School Calendar, and I'm working that into the spreadsheet.
Wow - do the words "Back to School!" on January 7, 2008 mean anything to these people?
Concerning the “The Turtle Island Quartet that little Piper Palin attended in place of her Mother. Here is the website of the group (including musical selections). http://turtleislandquartet.com/
I just cannot imagine Piper enjoying this. My kids would have fallen asleep when they were that age. (Not to mention it was a black tie function as per http://www.fairbanksconcert.org/FCA_07-08_Renewal_Pages.pdf ) so she would be all dressed up, bored and no Mommy sitting next to her to tell her to wake up....
Dangerous said, "Decisions are not always logical, but if someone makes a decision that is against their natural interests, it is fair to deem it irrational. SP may have faked her pregnancy because she wanted the attention and was planning an regular adoption, but that would be irrational because the damage from the faking coming out is huge, and the damage to regular adopting is close to zero."
People often make decisions against their natural/best interests. You may call that irrational. I call it human.
Morgan,
Well, it does sound like you would know far more than I regarding the Special Olympics, so thank you for your input! I guess I have never been fond of recognizing "a loser." I've been involved in coaching youth sports for many years, so I understand the value of standings in competititive sports, but for young children and special needs individuals, it is of little import to their enjoyment of the activity. IMHO :)
Last week, I commented that it seems like some comments here may be posted in order to provoke, rather than inspire thoughtful conversations. This post did not get through, so let me attempt to be as humble and snark-free as possible. I hate to see Morgan have to calm people down, after comments like these are posted.
Personally, I think it is a waste of our valuable resources(all of you)to be engaged in semantics disputes.
I hope this post gets through, because I believe I am not alone in "huffing and puffing" when I have to read this.
So yes, let's get back to the work at hand!
Regards,
Penny
Willow flew from JNU to ANC, and there is no indication that she ever flew again until JUNE 12th, 2008 (ANC back to JNU)
**************
Most likely after Trig was born, Sarah stayed in Wasilla, so Willow may have returned to school in Wasilla.
Diana,
The Fur & Ice event was held from 4pm to 5:30pm, March 8, 2008.
However, at the top of her calendar appears this weird "Performing Arts" event for Piper. And it looks like it was added after the fact (not shaded like the others.)
HERE is the link to that calendar.
Put your glasses on! It's fuzzy, but oh so fun to read!
In addition to my previous post I would like to add that Dan Lavey from Gallatin Public Affairs has more contacts to the McCain campaign than is at first apparent. His wife Lori Hardwick has her own fundraising firm and she organised fundraising events for John McCain.
http://www.kptv.com/newslinks/16078828/detail.html
(wow, tickets were only $ 10,000 per person or couple for the photo opportunity reception!)
According to http://tinyurl.com/bw67dd (race2008.com), we need to step up our efforts:
14) bob Says:
March 10th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Now here is what has been happening recently: For somebody who trolls or opponents consider ‘damaged beyond repair’ Sarah Palin:
1) finished first in the CNN poll 10 days ago for GOP nomination for 2012
2)is currently running away with vote in ‘Who is the leader of the Republican Party?
-now sitting at 37% and Rush Limbaugh at 28%
3) and currently leading another poll at shotsonthehouse.com
Who are your 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices for the Republican Nod in 2012?
Sarah Palin (52%) 285 votes
Bobby Jindal (37%)201
Mitt Romney (36%) 195
Newt Gingrich (21%) 112
Mike Huckabee (18%)97
NB: The polls at Hot Air and shotsonthehouse.com are still open so I would invite everybody to go over and register your votes.
Folks,
There was a lot of discussion about the formal Palin family photo on the balcony, with Bristol wearing the black dress (not the one with her in the green sweater). People think they see from her tummy that she was pregnant.
Sarah certainly would not want to release a photo if she knew Bristol was pregnant and it showed, but if Bristol was 3 - 4 months pregnant, she probably would have known, especially if she was starting to show. If she had not yet told her parents, she could not have protested the use of that photo, but couldn't she have found something else to wear? Something not so tight? Buy a new dress or something; don't teen girls like buying new clothes?
I think it's fine for young children to attend concerts and such, buy why was Piper the only Palin attending? Did they just drop her off? Did she go with an aunt or neighbor? Would someone let a 7-year-old attend an event alone?
Diana,
I got the concert info from Punkinbugg at 3/10/ 12:55pm post:
March 08, 2008:
Car Rental - Budget - etc.
Marriott Springhill Suites - etc.
FAIRBANKS
GOV Telephone interview/Sean Cockerham ADN (Fairbanks)
then this:
"Piper attended - Fairbanks Performing Arts Event on Governor's behalf (FBKS - Performing Arts Center)"
Say WHAT?? PIPER attends an event instead of her MOTHER? How old is this kid again?
So I looked up what concerts were in FBKS that night and came up w/the Turtle Island String Quartet concert presented by Fairbanks Concert Association. I know a bit about concert schedules as I worked in the arts up here for many years providing ticketing.
There is not a "Fairbanks Performing Arts Center" but in Fairbanks the Concert Association presents it's performances at Lathrop High School and the Fairbanks Symphony performs at Davis Hall on the UAF Campus. There were no performances at Davis Hall that night so I assumed that Piper was attending the Fbx Concert Assoc. perf. at Lathrop (Turtle Island String Qt).
I have a strong background in science and mathematics. It would be nice to collapse all actions into mathematical formulae. However, human emotions and actions do not always comply. Every month as I see my financial holding diminish I realize that science is great for the natural world, but human behavior is not quantifiable.
All of us who have had a long time partner know that the best prediction of future behavior is past behavior. What Gino did is related to what she thought---not mathematics or science.
I left a blog where there were discussion similar to "how many angels dance on the head of a pin?" I think those are great for the the people who want that. We seem to be trying to get some more definite answers. So I would suggest we stick to fact based ideology.
Thanks to PunkinBugg and AKPetMom for the information regarding the Fairbanks performance Piper attended in Sarah's stead (I noted this on the last thread, as I was appalled at such a young child representing the Gov--perhaps the third airline seat was for the Nanny?). Yes, it certainly was necessary to bring Piper along!
That was a busy week for Palin--after the end of Feb. (with her big trip to D.C. with Todd), she stayed in Anchorage for the rest of the week (no school in Juneau), and then the following Sunday Palin was off to L.A. alone for the Newsweek Women and Leadership conference (plus a meeting with Elan Frank). She flew back to Juneau March 4, announced her "pregancy" the evening of the 5th, and then flew with Piper to Anchorage the 6th, Fairbanks the 7th, Anchorage the 8th and Juneau the 9th --all with Piper. It kind of makes me wonder if she wasn't getting Piper used to the idea of the surprise baby....and god I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Piper asks, "Mommy, where do babies come from?"
Keep looking at the documents, folks! Your findings are great. Aren't there any Fairbanks weeklies at the library or something with reports of the AHA luncheon? Too bad the Turtle Island Orchestra did not play that afternoon!
Oh, and regarding the Texas flight: I believe some big Republican Energy Interest paid for her first-class seat (and Todd's, too. Not to mention the custom-made Randy something leather cowboy boots, valued at $1,000 bucks).
One of my grandmother-in-law's best stories is how she watched Al Capone being chaperoned into the Federal Building in downtown Chicago after he'd been captured for tax evasion. She worked on the 3rd floor of a bank across the street.It was quite an event at the time (1933?) and for a 102 year old woman this year, a great story to share with her family.
I just read an interesting account of the "plan for handling those thorny tax questions" about SP travel and THE TRAVEL OF HER CHILDREN at the SarahPalinTruthSquad blog dated 2/26. It is a reprint from the AP
Here is an excerpt:
But Van Flein said he believed Palin’s reimbursement to the state of travel expenses would correct any federal tax problems she might face. He also noted that Palin followed the advice she received from the state that such expenses are not considered taxable. However, tax experts said in October that incorrect state government advice would not trump IRS regulations.
And one more:
Palin said Thursday she hasn’t considered whether state payments for her children’s travel should be part of a broader review of her taxes.
“I haven’t even looked at it. All I know is there isn’t a need for an audit of that,” she said.
So she KNOWS that there isn't a need for an audit of her kids travel expenses for her federal taxes?
Really?
If I were her I would be getting some very good tax help this year.
Just what would that audit show???
Piper left Juneau on the night of THURSDAY, April 10th, and it looks like she was alone. (Neither SP or WP were with her) -- never to return. According to the Juneau school CALENDAR, standards-based testing was wrapping up that day, and Friday was a regular school day.
For that matter, why would Willow leave Juneau at 8:15pm Friday night, March 28th, while the "FIRST FAMILY" was enjoying dinner with the "AK Society of American Foresters" from 7-8:30pm in Juneau?
... Never to return ...?
Remember, this was 3 weeks before her mother delivers a 'premature' baby on April 18th.
If the baby was really due in May, why wouldn't both girls stay in Juneau schools until the end of the school year, or at the very earliest April 17th, when one might have heard Todd exclaim, "Surprise, girls! Mom's having a baby... in PALMER... get on a plane!"
ALASKA POLITICS
from ADN, Sean Cockerham
Gov. Sarah Palin’s biggest initiatives for this legislative session appear dead on arrival, at least for this year.
Top lawmakers say they aren’t likely to pass the governor’s bills ...
“They are very big issues. I personally do not believe we will complete those before the end of the session,” said Senate President Gary Stevens, a Republican from Kodiak.
.... Lawmakers from both parties say Palin introduced the bills too late. She submitted them about halfway into the scheduled 90-day session of the Legislature.
That’s not enough time to deal with such complicated, significant, potentially contentious issues, legislators said.
Palin spokesman Bill McAllister said that’s no excuse. “Well, what did they do last week?” he said.
The state Legislature shut down for most of the last week. About half the legislators went to an energy conference in Washington, D.C. Many of the rest went home to their districts.
,,,
This morning I was doing my morning read, which includes the UK Daily Mail, when I came across this:
http://tinyurl.com/beug38
It's a week-by-week photo analysis of a petite, thin, first-time mother.
I won't offer any other comments. I hardly need to. Just enjoy it.
Hey Morgan,
Thanks for the week-by-week photo analysis of the first time mother.
Here:
http://tinyurl.com/beug38
You are right. You did not need to share comments about this one. The pictures speak for themselves.
Two observations I would like to share:
1. This is a very thin young woman with her first pregnancy and she was definitely showing as early as 20 weeks IMO. SP was on her 5th pregnancy, 43 years old and wasn't showing at all at 30 weeks!
2. She shows a picture of her baby, Fin, at 8 weeks old at the bottom of the article. Now wasn't Tripp suppose to be about 7-8 weeks old when we saw him on the GVS show in Feb.? I know babies develop differently because I had two myself but Tripp IMHO looked younger than 8 weeks in Feb. He did not appear to be as lively as most 8 week olds I have experienced and the one in this picture.
Thanks again, Morgan, for sharing. It's just puzzling to me how people can look at pictures of SP from Nov. 07 - Apr. 08 and be convinced that she was actually pregnant with Trig.
Seeing Piper's travel times, I now wonder not only when she goes to school but also when she sleeps.
Having just spent the last two days completing my 2008 taxes, I seem to have taxes on my mind. I'm pretty darn sure that SP political aspirations from here on out will hinge on how she fills out her 2008 taxes. A few questions come to mind:
If Trig is adopted, will she and Toad take the adoption credit? If they do, isn't the game up?
What about listing Trig's birth date to claim him as a dependent? If she gives any other date than the stated birth date of 4/18 isn't the game up?
If she lies about the birth date on her tax form wouldn't that trigger medical insurance fraud?
If she attempts another run for higher office, won't the MSM insist on seeing her 2008 tax return?
These pesky paper trails....
Diana, thanks for all you do for this investigation! One point: You said Bristol was "not seen by anyone nor travels anywhere for the entire time her pregnancy would have been obvious." Remember her state-paid travel to Fairbanks for the Iron Dog, I mean the AHA Go Red, and Ms. Bartels' comment that Palin brought her three daughters to lunch.
Thanks, Naked Truth. I thought the readers would like that.
I've always been amused at Sarah's claims, since (as yo can see by my fuzzy profile pic) I'm also short and petite. And I'm also the mother of five and can supply the medical records to prove it, should any of you have questions.
Even with my first child, I started showing obviously at around five months. I remember how I'd jumped into wearing maternity clothes in excitement when I found out I was pregnant, and how I wanted to go back to my regular clothes after I grew sick of them couple of months later. And how I cried when I realized I could no longer button my "regular" jeans.
After that, I showed early with my second pregnancy. By my fifth, I swear I thought I was showing before I even peed on the stick.
And here's the funny thing: I had gestational diabetes with my last pregnancies, which occurred in my late thirties. And the low-carb diet I went on caused me to LOSE weight. So there I was, this little stick woman with this giant bump. They don't make scarves to hide the kind of bump I had, or that most women preggers with their fifth child have - especially small woman. There's just no where for that baby to grow on a short, small woman but OUT.
wayofpeace, good find from ADN: "Lawmakers from both parties say Palin introduced the bills too late. She submitted them about halfway into the scheduled 90-day session of the Legislature."
Remember the report that when they invited her to a retreat before the session and asked her about her agenda, she didn't even craft one of her beauty pageant, word salad, empty answers to appear responsive -- but instead said they were putting her on the spot?
She may have to run for President. I'm not sure she could win an Alaska statewide election.
Wonder why she delayed helping her staff get her proposals together? Didn't she cancel attending a meeting somewhere to pay attention to Alaska's needs? Was she playing with Tripp too much after he was born 12/27? Or distracted by a birth in early February?
Maybe she just wanted credit for proposing legislation that she didn't really want to become law.
Star Magazine is reporting that Bristol has broken up with Levi and they are quoting Mercede!
http://tinyurl.com/b284yo
My google alerts are firing up with Bristol and Levi breaking their engagement and Mercede is talking. PLEASE let it be so!
Craig asked:
Do a few photos of how a woman doesn't appear to look pregnant enough somehow rise above speculation to something more proven? I'm no lawyer, but it seems likely that if you used that evidence in a courtroom it would still be deemed as speculative.
Examples of validated "direct" evidence (probably admitted in court):
*Testimony (SP wild ride flight attendant comments)
*Statements on the record (SP's taped/reported statements
*Authenticated photographs (non-altered)
*Business Documents (travel or medical records)
Examples of non-qualifying "direct" evidence (probably not admitted in court):
*Unauthenticated correspondence (Dr. CBJ letter)
*Statements and testimony not of the witness's direct knowledge or observation
*Witness or third party speculation
*Hearsay
Examples:
"I saw SP at the store and she looked pregnant to me." (admissible)
"I saw SP at the store and she was definitely pregnant because she looked that way to me." (inadmissible)
Circumstantial evidence is different. Examples:
*Human gestation period is approximately 40 weeks
*Very immature infants almost always require NICU-level care to survive
*Older woman are more likely statistically to give birth to a DS child than their younger female counterparts
*Faking a pregnancy requires a motive, rational or irrational. Absent direct evidence of irrationality, assume rational motives.
Some comments addressed toward me state that SP chose to fake the pregnancy based on irrational motives. Okay. So maybe she wanted to be caught, huh? That would be irrational.
But -- she prepped for the faking with 'fashion-assisted camouflage' for at least two weeks prior to her announcement. That doesn't sound like she randomly decided to walk in one day and announce she was pregnant, in order to claim Bristol's baby, born a month earlier unbeknownst to everyone, as her own.
If she faked, the execution and assist from her family and Dr. CBJ indicate rationality all the way. If she made any outwardly irrational decisions, it was staying in Texas to give the speech, whether she was in labor or her daughter was. Even if the baby had been born earlier, the decision to first stay, then rush back, was irrational because it raises questions either way.
I suspect, she choose to stay as a rational decision (she wanted to give her speech), and rush back as a rational decision (if she didn't get back soon, Trig could be discovered and her ruse was defeated).
But if you prefer, she made a rational decision to stay to give her speech despite early, premature labor with a multiple-high-risk infant (since it was so important to her), then made a completely irrational decision to fly back to Alaska without getting herself checked out.
Good luck convincing anyone of that.
Dangerous
I was just going back over old photos and wondering about this:
I was looking at the pic of Sarah on the Mercede myspace page where she's wearing shorts and looking very un-post-partum, slim and trim. You know the pic.
Then I saw the zoo picture again, the one with Sarah and Piper and two can't-really-tell-who-they-are other girls. Sarah is allegedly carrying Trig in a baby papoose thing. But look at Sarah in that pic; she looks heavier, her legs look heavier, her face looks full. Has anyone else commented on this? Do we know for sure when this zoo pic was from? It doesn't seem possible that Sarah would go from slim right after Trig to heavier, to slim as a rail in time to run for VP just a month later? I think the FLickr had it dated at July of 08.
Help??!!??
Sorry I don't know how to link pics and stuff.
WOO HOO --- You GO, Mercede!
I'm looking at the wire coverage of the story -- some outlets are mentioning the 'swirl' of controversy waaaay back when.
Check out this PHOTO at Radaronline -- isn't this Willow? (widow's peak/round face)?
No wonder they have fooled MOST of the people MOST of the time with these girls.
Star website says:
"For more photos and details, including the hate-filled text message Bristol sent Levi, the cheating rumors, the lies about Bristol's schooling, the Johnston family's plan to win back Tripp and exclusive photos of the baby boy, pick up the March 23 issue of Star, on stands now!"
I may have to buy this magazine for the first time in my life.
Newsflash:
http://www.starmagazine.com/bristol_palin_levi_split/news/15341
I just need to add that if Bristol and Levi break up with acrimony, and they don't pin Trig on Bristol, that's a near-fatal blow to the theory that Bristol is Trig and Levi's first kid. I find it next to impossible that Levi wouldn't tell the truth about that, if he's the father of BOTH babies, or even if he's only the father of Tripp and another man is the father of Trig. He'd use the second circumstance against her in court for visitation or leverage.
Dangerous
I submitted a short paragraph the other day that gave two links to Palin family pix that included Trig, but they never were posted. I thought they might help the regular posters who are focusing on the actual physical characteristics of Trig. Well, here are those links again, but if they don't show up this time I'll just go back to lurking: http://tiny.cc/C6JyJ and http://tiny.cc/K24BF
Sing, Sadie, SING!
Punkinbugg,
I say that is Willow.
Yes, that photo is Willow.
Punkinbugg and Muah: I agree, sure looks like Willow, and the baby looks like TRIG, from the red hair and the way his head is lolling on her shoulder.
Molly,
Way back when, some of us did say that that zoo pic was the only one of Sarah that looked a bit post-partum. She is small enough that gaining ten pounds would make a big difference. And it is clear that she shrank for the VP campaign, on purpose or not. But the photo was inconclusive and pretty irrelevant otherwise.
BTW, my own theory was that it was the camera angle and the white shorts combined with dark shirt that made her thighs look larger. Also, the zoo took the picture, so she may not have dressed expecting to be memorialized. Or she may have wanted to look postpartum for the public, while the Sadie photo was intended to be private.
I don't think the two girls besides Piper are Bristol, Willow, or Lauden, but one could be the Superbowl/eBay niece. I had thought they were random visitors.
You said it Journeygal: Sing, Sadie, sing! I don't think Levi told her everything, though. And I didn't think she would rock any boats until after her mom's trial.
I recall Bristol hesitated at Greta's Q about marrying Levi. Sadie is saying Bristol lied, and about more than Tripp's birth date (which Sadie probably doesn't know). So why did Bristol do the interview? Curiouser and curiouser.
I too believe that the photo used in the RADAR post is of WILLOW, not Bristol.
Makes you wonder how often even the press gets it wrong...and how often that has been capitalized on.
(off topic) I'm obviously doing something very wrong regarding signing in for this blog using my(new) Google account. I've had to reset my password every time I've tried to comment so far, or PW is rejected (?)
Today online The Star posted - Bristol and Levy Bitter Split, they are no longer a couple and Bristol won't even let Levy see their son, Tripp. Levi's sister, Mercede, is dishing out the details that will be available in the March 23 issue of the Star.
here's the link
http://www.starmagazine.com/bristol_palin_levi_split/news/15341
IF it's true - a now angry Mercede could reveal a lot of Palin secrets.
***FROM THE MODERATOR***
KayKay,
I've not rejected any comments from you. The one you just posted is the first one I've seen. Google does have its issues.
Silly Rabbit,
Per your photos, I don't recall seeing a post from you. Regarding photos, however, we do have new readers coming in all the time who think they've found something brand new to show us when in fact it's already archived in someone's photo stream on Flickr or whatever.
The photos you sent are already archived, but I allowed them anyway because they do provide good views of Trig.
I sent tips@Radaronline.com this email:
You have posted a picture of Willow Palin, not Bristol Palin on your website:
Willowpic
Here is a picture of Bristol Palin holding Trig:
BRISTOL
Here is a family photo -- Bristol is on the left, Willow is on the right:
FAMILY
I sent the actual links, not imbedded URLs...
Please visit the website below -- the controversy about who is Trig's mother is not over.
1. There are pictures of Sarah Palin from February and March 2008 with a FLAT STOMACH. Trig was (supposedly) born on April 18th, 2008.
2. Bristol left school around December 2007 and never returned.
3. Tripp's birth was reported in December 2008, but no PHOTO exists of him until Greta Van Susteren (of FOX NEWS) interviews Bristol in FEB 2009.
4. No birth certificate was ever produced for either baby (and it was requested by the editor of the Ancorage Daily News).
www.palindeception.com
hey kaykay!
I always have to change my password every day if I try to post anything.
My guess is that it is because I am not using a Gmail (google) email account.
Can anyone else provide insight to this situation?
Re: Missing comments
Happens to me too sometimes. One thing to look for is the yellow line at the top about your comment being submitted to the moderator. If you don't see it, enter the new word verification and try again.
Hi & my verification word is "shook" & yes, I'm "all shook up". Got a new computer & have been off the blog for a couple days, just catching up. Some thoughts of mine, as always IMHO:
1. Bristol & Levi started to date summer 2007, but SP lied & said they had really dated 3 years, to make their relationship seem more solid.
2. NYC trip with Bristol (fall 2007), probably right after SP found out B was PG. Doubt they planned late term abortion, or they would have gotten. Likely time they weighed their options & I believe giving the baby up for adoption was one choice. Nov 2007, SP declares Adoption Month, by coincidence?
4. No women in her right mind, would deduce adopting an unrelated DS baby at whim, would HELP HER get chosen for VP candidate. That is ludicrous to suggest. She would only go to this extreme for one of her daughters, not a sister.
5. The Bristol green sweater baby bump picture, sure makes more sense fall 2007, but I trust Audrey on this.
6. IF SP was so altruistic, as to adopt a special needs baby of a friend or church member, you can betcha it would be highly publicized.
Me again, here are the other thoughts of mine:
7. I agree Bristol got pregnant, shortly after starting to date Levi, May-June 2007. I believe birth was a month or so early, due to DS, which was NOT known until birth.
8. The DS made them decide to keep Trig, to feel confident, that he would AT LEAST receive excellent medical care. No difference in medical coverage for natural or adopted child.
9. They decided to fake SP pregnancy, to provide the level of medical care he would need. Plus Bristol (or Willow) were both too young for a baby to have been considered OK.
10. Remember Feb-May 2008, was a CRITICAL TIME for SP, hoping to be picked for VP by McCain.
11. I believe Bristol got pregnant BY SURPRISE shortly after Trig's birth. She & SP thought breast feeding would make sex safe, no such luck! DS BABIES can have difficulties sucking & nursing, which probably allowed Bristol to ovulate.
12. WILD IDEA of mine at the start of this blog last fall. SP seems like a FIXER. Could Bristol have had DS baby (Feb-March 2007) & be bummed out? SP as a mother says, I will take this baby & you have ANOTHER one, without DS. I agree, this is very OFF THE WALL.
13. I believe Bristol LOVES & is the primary caretaker for both of her boys.
14. I believe PIPER thinks Trig is her brother.
Never meaning to offend anyone or imply I'm right, these are my educated opinions. Thanks.
Couple more thoughts:
Bristol & Levi were not "officially" engaged Spring 2008, where did that come from? They are not even engaged now.
Bristol's second SURPRISE pregnancy was only announced at the RNC in Minnesota, Late August 2008. How convenient!!! Literally hours after Sarah was selected as McCain's VP candidate. Strange, no mention of it ALL summer long.
It's a picture of Willow holding her baby, ha ha.
MSM gets it wrong again (assuming they meant to show Bristol with Trig or Tripp). I think this picture settles it. Look at the loving way she's cradling the baby, and the closeness that's obvious from the picture. There's no other explanation for it. and the picture of Bristol with Trig shows her completely devoid of any emotional attachment at all!!
Now, I don't believe that conjecture any more than posters who are projecting the same, but with the roles of Bristol and Willow reversed. But if the media and many of us often confuse Bristol and Willow, would everyone reject Willow so quickly (without conclusive evidence, I might add) if she were 15 or 16 instead of 14? I don't think so.
You really have to TRY to exclude Willow from consideration. For Bristol, you'll say rumors of pregnancy are strong evidence for, but her car accident is not strong evidence against.
Willow flies around and Bristol doesn't because Willow has to in order to get places and Bristol doesn't. We know Bristol went back and forth to Wasilla. Doesn't that count as travel? Other drivers wouldn't see her at stoplights?
The facts are that Willow's alibi is not stronger the Bristol's and vice versa. Diana ruled out Willow on nothing, nothing, but conjecture, a few airline flights, and an honor roll listing. Yet Bristol has another child in less than nine months, and you'll concoct any combination of unproven explanations to make it possible for her to be Trig's mother.
Wake up!! It's either Willow or Sarah as Trig's mother. Open your minds or at least open your eyes. Willow having a child is a potential scandal and embarrassment (for her and SP) worth faking, not Bristol. The GOP sent you on a rabbit hunt and you bought it.
Dangerous
Punkinbugg excellent job!
Radar also did Bristol Palin Speaks To Greta.
They must be encouraged to pursue all Palin tales.
Not a surprise Huffington Post reports:
Gov. Sarah Palin's office on Wednesday (March 11, 2009) refused to comment on a report that the Palin's daughter Bristol Palin had broken off her engagement with fiancé Levi Johnston.
GVS will do the same?
Who owns Star Magazine?
Hey folks,
So glad to see the sleuthing going on here!
After a bout with the nasty flu going around here, I ducked out for awhile.
So this just popped up online - saying that Mercede Johnston is claiming that the
Bristol/Levi engagement and wedding is now OFF.
www.radaronline.com
Mind you, these are quotes from Star Magazine, so put whatever weight/reality on that.
But here's a question:
Is that Tripp - or Trig - in Bristol's arms in the pic?
I think it's Trig - which seems - odd?
**MODERATOR ALERT**
A comment got through earlier that I went back and removed after having second thoughts about it. No offense to the author, but it contained a bit of extrapolation about Bristol that seemed pretty baseless without further evidence to back it up.
For now, let's stick to what's been reported as opposed to running with rumors.
Thanks for understanding.
When is Sherry's trial? Is it possible the Palins are purposely distancing themselves?
Levi Johnston's sister, Mercede, is quoted as saying Bristol broke off her engagement with Levi more than a month ago.
Got this from www.raradonline.com
This is gittin gooder and gooder!!
Ver word: readmx ?Che?
James
Radar switched pictures. Now it looks like they replaced Willow with a scowling Bristol.
I think the baby was Trig, the older baby. It is odd. Radar needs to be more informed and up to date on all things Palin.
Radaronline has changed the picture! Bristol only - no babies.
Ha ha the folks at Mudflats caught that boo boo, too!
Ahh, teenager drama. This will no doubt erupt into a bit of a "she said-she said" exchange, though I would imagine that Bristol will be encouraged to limit her public responses.
This is exactly why, in my opinion, that the weakest link in this whole alleged baby conspiracy are the teenagers involved. The normal ups and downs of such friendships (let alone if they are parental relations) makes it tough for an explosive bit of information to stay under wraps for too long.
So, if the bulk of these revelations by Bristol's former BFF are true, then any actual conspiracy will likely hit the press shortly. To me, if a conspiracy doesn't break, through the Johnston connection, then it never will. Because it will mean that there simply isn't one.
Question: Why would the Palin's purposely antagonize the one group of people who could blow their cover-up sky high?
The moment of truth has arrived for this conspiracy narrative, one way or another.
Sherry's trial date is May 18. The judge was one of two names Palin had to choose from recently for a state supreme court vacancy, and she picked the other person. Perhaps coincidence, or maybe she didn't want a change of judge to delay resolution of Sherry's case.
So Levi and Bristol broke up over a month ago. Sherry Johnson's new attorney, Rex Butler, represented her in court on February 13th. Interesting timing.
OK, so according to STAR, Mercede claims that Levi & Bristol have broken up and Bristol won't let Levi see Tripp.
Since Levi is Tripp's father, he can go to court and force Bristol to let him see his son, right?
Suppose Bristol and Levi are Trig's biological parents, and Sarah and Todd have not legally adopted Trig YET. That means that Levi could likewise go to court and force Bristol to let him see his OTHER son Trig, right? Evidence would have to be presented that Levi and Bristol are Trig's biological parents???
Maybe this break-up will force the truth to come out about Trig!!!
It occurs to me that it's unlikely that an 18 year old boy would be kissing a baby unless he thought it was his. Now we're hearing that there is some reason to believe that Levi isn't the father. Maybe this is what's behind the breakup. Maybe Levi found how he's not the only candidate.
Here is a sampling from Meghan McCain's blogette:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35974000@N06/sets/72157614779879491/
Looks like mommy love to me, but none of us will know for a while longer. We have all been at this for a while, and I think we are all basically locked into our opinions, so let's not continue trying to change each other's minds, or challenging readers to defend their opinions. This is a blog...lighten up!
Penny
thanks MORGAN for
the pregnancy time-line. WOW!
agree that it SPEAKS FOR ITSELF!
...
keith O has shown several times the clip of BRISTOL and LEVY at the GOP convention.
and of course, we get that totally unreal looking breast-padding job: it still looks ridiculous.
verification word e mag rat
Breakup confirmed:
Johnston, 19, told The Associated Press that he and 18-year-old Bristol Palin mutually decided "a while ago" to end their relationship. He declined to elaborate as he stood outside his family's home in Wasilla, about 40 miles north of Anchorage. He also said some details of the breakup, rumors of which had been swirling on the Internet, were inaccurate.
Bristol Palin said in a statement issued through a spokeswoman for her mother's political action committee that she was "devastated." "Unfortunately, my family has seen many people say and do many things to `cash in' on the Palin name," she said. "Sometimes that greed clouds good judgment and the truth."
Associated Press writer Anne Sutton in Juneau contributed to this report.
Well, the AP has confirmed this split up by talking to Levi. They say he said they mutually split up "awhile" ago; Bristol released a statement through the SarahPac spokesperson (Meghan Staplegun?)that she is "devastated".
I must say, ROFL. Not because they have indeed, broken up, but because it just proves that the whole Bristol interview thing was a farce, just like many of us suspected. The hesitations upon being asked what Levi was doing, the canned comments, the whole durn thang was a lie. WHO ARE THEY TRYING TO KID anymore??
False in one, false in all Sarah.
I find it odd that Greta Van Sustern and her husband John Coale would be promoing Sarah. John WAS a big democrat. Here is a little article I found about the two losing their bar license for a year because of lawyer misconduct.
Must read:
http://tinyurl.com/coeow8
Who started the church fire and why?
I stated before I think Track, Todd or Molly could be candidates for one of the parents of Trig.
To Moderator Morgan: THANK YOU for all your work & dedication. I feel that you make very wise decisions, thumbs up to you! Thanks again, Karen
Alaska Gov. Palin's daughter's, boyfriend break up
By RACHEL D'ORO – 47 minutes ago
WASILLA, Alaska (AP) — Levi Johnston and Bristol Palin, the teenage daughter of Gov. Sarah Palin, have broken off their engagement, he said Wednesday, about 2 1/2 months after the couple had a baby. Johnston, 19, told The Associated Press that he and 18-year-old Bristol Palin mutually decided "a while ago" to end their relationship. He declined to elaborate as he stood outside his family's home in Wasilla, about 40 miles north of Anchorage.
He also said some details of the breakup, rumors of which had been swirling on the Internet, were inaccurate.
Bristol Palin said in a statement that she was devastated about a report on Star magazine's Web site that quoted Levi's sister, Mercede, as saying Bristol "makes it nearly impossible" to visit the teenagers' infant son, Tripp. The baby was born Dec. 27.
"Unfortunately, my family has seen many people say and do many things to `cash in' on the Palin name," said the statement, which was issued through the governor's political action committee. "Sometimes that greed clouds good judgment and the truth."
SarahPAC spokeswoman Meghan Stapleton did not immediately respond to calls seeking further information. The governor's spokesman, Bill McAllister, declined comment.
Sarah Palin revealed her daughter's pregnancy just days after being named John McCain's running mate on the Republican presidential ticket. She had said in December that her daughter and Johnston "are committed to accomplish what millions of other young parents have accomplished, to provide a loving and secure environment for their child."
In an interview that aired on Fox News last month, Bristol Palin said her fiance saw the baby every day and described him as a "hands-on" dad.
Johnston and Palin had said they were considering a summer wedding.
"We both love each other," he told the AP in October. "We both want to marry each other. And that's what we are going to do."
Associated Press writer Anne Sutton in Juneau contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved
Karen @ 12:43
I did read and saw pictures a while back where Palin visited the Special Olympics Center and the kids were so excited having their picture made with the governor. That was an unexpected visit, not scheduled, out of the blue, on December 19, 2007. I think maybe Palin knew then because of the surprised visit.
From People.com:
"Bristol has been spotted around Wasilla shopping and exercising. She recently returned from Juneau where she was visiting her mother, who is spending the winter in the state's capital with daughter Piper and son Trig during the legislative session."
So Willow and Bristol are in school in Wasilla now. Maybe Todd is home with them. Trig is not with Bristol or Willow. And Piper goes to school in Juneau, if at all.
Great comments from everyone. This is such a civilized blog. Morgan, you are a great moderator.
Anyway, isn't it ironic that in comments to many of the "break up story" news online, people are skeptical about the truth of Sadie's information because it's in the "Star" but somehow all the Tripp info from "people" which came from very odd sources (i.e. the grandfather's sister) is beyond question.
P.S. Dangerous, although I believe that Sarah does not follow any reasonable logic and the human element is always a wild card, I totally LOVED your math model. Very Nice. Reminds me of a story from William S. Wilson where he put love into an algebraic formula then explained it back out----and it made sense. I haven't read it in a very long time but I remember that it was a great short story (maybe if I reread it I wouldn't like it as much now, but I think that it will hold up) It is chapter one "love" in his book "why I don't write like Franz Kafka"
I was thinking the other day that when it all shakes out it really doesnt matter what story ends up as the truth because all of them are damaging to SP. I've said before that the wild ride story assuming SP was truly carrying Trig is as damaging to her character as a fake pregnancy..perhaps even moreso. Regardless, unless this latest story stays in the MSM and gains closer scrutiny it'll be up to this blog and a few others to keep SP's deceptions in the spotlight. 2010 is right around the corner and 2012 isnt far behind.
Keep up the great work guys.
Thanks Audrey & Gang!
The break-up might lend itself to more info coming out...
I am shocked,,,SHOCKED that these hyped-up Alaskan hillibillies are not gonna get married..2 things I bet my Medical License on last October..SP is not the bio-mom of Trig, and those mixed-up teens, at best, had no chance of romance.
Not really on topic, but a thought ocurred to me regarding the pictures where Bristol looks pregnant, but which Audrey dates to Fall 2006.
It wouldn't shock me if Bristol was pregnant back in 2006, but had a miscarriage or an abortion. Just a thought. When you mix alcohol, serious partying and lack of birth control education, these things can happen.
I don't think revelation of a pregnancy deception would really hurt SP except with people who already can't stand her - it wouldn't even count with me, and I wouldn't vote for her if she were the only one on the ballot. (Especially not for dogcatcher...) I could imagine a scenario where she started it all to protect somebody such as a daughter and then it all just snowballed, one lie begetting another as often happens. I myself am still torn between fascination with the mystery and clue search vs. discomfort that we're even pursuing this, considering that kids are involved. Of course, I also thought impeachment of Bill Clinton was idiotic over his sexual adventures (would have loved to go after any Prez, including Bill, for bombing people, though). Some things, like SP's is-it-real-or-is-it-Memorex pregnancy and Bill's sexual oddities, are just not relevant to their political performance or the welfare of the nation.
Hello everyone - I've been lurking on this website for a while and decided I'd finally post something. It's weird to do that because I have always ridiculed conspiracy theorists. But I guess I'm one of the few, the pajama-clad, because I also believe Sarah Palin wasn't pregnant with Trig.
What's convinced me (though I still have some doubts) is that usually conspiracy theorists reject a perfectly reasonable explanation (The twin towers fell because the burning jet fuel weakened the steel enough to collapse; Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and the state of Hawaii can't release the original copy of his birth certificate because it's against the law) in favor of some fantastic story. In Palin's case, though, the official story is not reasonable and is truly fantastic.
I don't have anything new to add, information-wise, but I thought I'd add my two cents, as a new poster. I don't remember when I first heard of the Palin theory, but I do know that when I first heard about her birth story, as a woman with two kids, it struck me as really weird. I guess it was during the republican convention, and I was so turned off by her nastiness that I - well, first I volunteered for the Obama campaign - then I started trying to learn more about her online and stumbled on this website.
Anyway, I've read this whole website, and Andrew Sullivan's pieces, and -oh, man, I guess I'm really into this! So here, if you're interested are the most convincing and problematic elements of the Palin Decemption theory, in my view:
Convincing:
1. The birth story, obviously. It just doesn't make any sense, and no doctor would admit to approving it.
2. The pictures around March 2008, where her belly is tiny, then big, then medium. Also, no one 7 months pregnant can lean forward that far that long the way she did in the TV interview. No way.
3. The disappearance of Bristol during the time when she would have been pregnant.
4. Palin has lied easily about many things, even in her very first, very public appearance as McCain's running mate ("I said thanks, but no thanks, to that Bridge to Nowhere" when she had actively lobbied for it).
5. Mercede's myspace page, assuming it's for real, particularly "mommy-in-law."
6. In pictures, Bristol looks very nurturing towards Trig. That doesn't prove anything, but it does support the theory.
7. The amazingly convenient timing of Bristol's pregnancy announcement at "five months."
8. The fact that no one saw Tripp for a month and a half.
9. No hard proof Palin was pregnant.
Problems:
1. Biggest problem: surely the National Enquirer has been waving money all around Alaska trying to get someone to talk, and hasn't succeeded. The Star just got Mercede, but she seems not to have said anything about it. It's such a big story, someone who knew would have been happy to come forward. This is the biggest problem with most conspiracy theories - someone would be willing to sell the info.
2. At least one, and probably more, health professionals would have had to lie, risking their licenses. Why would they do that?
3. Some of Bristol's friends must have known, and those kids are so chatty on their myspace pages. Why weren't there any posts about pregnant Bristol? Not one!
So we'll see, I guess! I do admit that there is a chance that Palin really did have Trig, and I also recognize that we may never find out the truth. But I was telling a friend about this theory, and he said "omigod, what if it is true?" That's what I think: Omigod, if this is true, as it seems to have a good chance of being, that gives Sarah Palin an almost Shakespeare-level thirst for power at all costs.
Wow, two crazy work days left me no time to get to my 'other job' (this site!!!) but I'll just say that the Bristol story breaking on Radaronline is very interesting. AMI is the parent company of Star, National Enquirer and Radar... In the past few weeks, Radar has gone increasingly more salacious in its gossip coverage (it's got a videoblog of sorts with Octomom, for crying out loud). Radar, when it was a print magazine, was more highbrow and a bit snarky, but the print version closed in October; since then, AMI bought the Radaronline website and we know they're willing to take the low road. :)
I can't wait!
I do find this statement interesting - supposedly from Bristol put out through Sarah's PAC - trashing Mercede:
"Unfortunately, my family has seen many people say and do many things to `cash in' on the Palin name," said the statement, which was issued through the governor's political action committee. "Sometimes that greed clouds good judgment and the truth."
http://tinyurl.com/cnmrux
One does get the feeling there is more to come!
I haven't tracked down a copy of the Star mag yet, but according to the website snippet Mercede tells that not only did they break up a while ago, but also that Bristol is not attending school. So how many lies did Bristol spew during the GVS interview? Great work SP getting your daughter to go out and lie to make your family look better for your political purposes!
BLOG COMMENTS at HUFF.POST:
Strange. Look at the different updates, the date of birth is still in question - above in one update it's stated as 12/27 and in another 12/29.
How come nothing is ever straight forward when it comes to the Palins?
It's really bizarre.
...
The real tragedy here is that Scarah paraded Bristol and her teenage pregnancy for political gain without thinking of how this would affect her daughter.
Her own mother is hardly a role model for raising children. Bristol's best bet is to finish school somehow and move on with her life, away from Scarah.
...
[SP] is a train wreck and the derailments keep happeneing on a regular basis.
She's so wrapped up in her ego, she did not have time to instill the values she espouses in her own children...... don't be fooled.....Palin is no multi-tasker .....
Ocean said:
"So Levi and Bristol broke up over a month ago. Sherry Johnson's new attorney, Rex Butler, represented her in court on February 13th. Interesting timing."
Yes, very interesting timing. And if you can recall, Sadie and Levi showed up in court with their mother, Sherry, for the first time. This will be an interesting story if it goes to court.
Also I would like for us to start considering the possibility of Levi not being Trig's father. Let's outline this:
1.I have seen it stated a few times that Bristol and Levi did not start dating until Aug. 07.
2. We also saw a Palin family picture taken in Sept. 07 that possibly shows a 3-4 months pregnant Bristol - meaning that she was pregnant when she started dating Levi.
3. Levi kissing Trig at the RNC convention could have been staged. But I do agree teenage boys just don't kiss on anybody's baby. But what if he was told to show affection? The campaign had some great PR people.
4. The Sadie pictures of Trig on myspace that showed a family connection between herself and Trig. Sadie referred to SP as her 'mommy-in-law' and Trig as her 'baby brother'. Could Sadie have thought that Sarah was actually the mother of Trig and called Trig her baby brother because she thought of Bristol as her sister?
5. What if the Johnston's (Sherry, Levi and Sadie) had no idea that Bristol was pregnant with Trig. What if Bristol was forced to breakup with Levi and leave town to live with her Aunt because she knew that Levi was not the baby's father. But she told Levi that she was leaving because her parents wanted her away from him.
6. So Bristol leaves town, stays out of sight pretty much from Dec. 07 until after the baby is born. And yes, I think Trig was born about a month early in Feb/Mar 08. After Trig is Born, Bristol hooks back up with Levi. They have been away from one another for awhile and they make up for lost time and BAMM! Tripp is conceived.
7. Tripp IMO was probably born in January and was only about 4 weeks old when we saw him on GVS in Feb. This is why we did not see a picture of him until almost 2-months after his supposed birth of Dec. 27, 2008.
I think what we will possibly hear next is Levi, Sadie or Sherry stating that SP moved Bristol away in late '07 and early '08 to keep her away from Levi because the Palin's thought Bristol was too good for Levi. But the real reason Bristol went away was to hide a pregnancy that Levi had nothing to do with.
So if Bristol is Trig's mother (And I think she is.) who is really Trig's father?
Why in the world would the SarahPAC be addressing the issue of Bristol's "break-up" with Levi? (Remember how surprised Levi was when they named him as the "young man" Bristol was going to marry!) Anyway, that's not what PACs are for, is it?
As an intelligent commenter on the Mudflats blog pointed out yesterday, in cases like these, Palin likes to say, My family is a private, not a government matter, but when it comes to charging the state for her children's travel and lodging, it's because they're part of the government!
Good catch on the part of the person who noticed that the public break-up may have occurred around the time that Sherry Johnston engaged Rex Butler as her lawyer!
I am going now to check out this SarahPAC business!
I think the search for what PACs can and can't do may be rather involved, but here is a description of the PAC from an article that appeared on the Huffington Post:
"Palin's official gubernatorial staff cannot have involvement in the Political Action Committee, which makes the geographic difference a bit less difficult. Asked why the new operation was stationed in Virginia, the official noted that, "It is pretty common for PACs to be registered in states different than the [politician's home state]." Being near the hub of federal power, she added, would allow SarahPAC easier communication with various agencies, specifically the FEC."
Meg or Meghan Stapleton was on Palin's staff (after being anchor on Alaska's channel 2 news--Palin has numerous former media people on her staff), decamped to the McCain campaign's Truth brigade (Stapleton is known as a ferocious hatchet person in Alaska), and is now a paid staff person for the PAC. I still can't figure out what Stapleton is doing releasing teen-angst statements through the PAC.
A P.S. to my above PAC-related post: we are familiar with the linguist's favorite example of how languages develop according to the needs of the community of speakers, so that Native Alaskans have 50 different words for snow (or so they used to tell us). I think Alaskan politicians somehow have NO word for "conflict of interest." It's about time they started talking about that!
jwoolman - "Some things, like SP's is-it-real-or-is-it-Memorex pregnancy and Bill's sexual oddities, are just not relevant to their political performance or the welfare of the nation."
I sort of buy this argument when it comes to Bill Clinton, since I don't recall him ever campaigning on the promise to not cheat on his wife. There was, however, an ethics issue when it came to his possible misuse of power over an intern.
Sarah Palin's supporters deserve to know the truth behind the Trig pregnancy because it is directly related to beliefs she's campaigned on. Her status as a pro-life icon is at least partially based on having had a Down Syndrome child. If she cynically adopted Trig as a campaign prop, the voters deserve to know.
And to a lesser degree, if one of her daughters turns out to have been the third generation of a failed abstinence-only sex education policy, that's something the voters should probably consider as well.
Ever since we saw Sadie's complaint on her Florida friend's Myspace page, I've suspected the Johnsons don't know the whole story, either about Trig, or about Tripp's real birthdate. Bristol is beginning to sound like Sarah-in-training; I can see her, under Sarah's direction, making sure the Johnsons were kept out of the loop. We don't even know how much has been told to good ole boy Levi.
RIght now, Levi's in a hard place. If he talks, Clan Sarah could retaliate by keeping him from seeing his son. Forcing something like that with a lawyer is expensive, and Levi is an unemployed dropout. He knows Sarah is a vindictive backslasher. I suspect he'll keep his mouth shut unless they push him too far. At Tripp's age, if you miss even a month of your baby's life, you miss a lot. Or maybe they're buying his silence with money: this kid is looking at 18 years of child support payments.
I asked my teenaged daughter about the strange naming on Sadie's Myspace. She said that girls who are close to each other (or pretending to be close) will indeed refer to a BFF's brother as their own "brother." It would be helpful to know when the photos were taken. It's highly possible that at the time Sadie posted them, she knew Bristol was PG with her brother's child and that Sarah was pushing for at least the image of an engagement (I don't think it was ever announced officially, was it? No date was ever set.)
It would be a huge ego lift for a teen, being linked to her state's governor like that. It is highly possible she was clueless to the fact she was holding her own nephew. How ironic. I wonder if she's begun to suspect the truth herself, or does she simply not read?
Thank you, Karen.
Moderating this group is a pleasure because of the caliber of the commenters. Each and every one of you provide such diversity of input in an overwhelmingly thoughtful and civil manner.
You are all appreciated.
Tabloid Chick-- Ironic, isn't it, that Radar taking the low road, turns out to be the road everybody was taking yesterday by mid-afternoon, including AP and the NYTimes-- who had stayed far far away from the Edwards scandal.
Sarah has made these poor children part of her government and her policies (abstinence)-- therefore, the children's scandals are indeed political news. Sad but true.
So welcome the era of Tabloid Journalism! And Thank God for It.
Craig said, "To me, if a conspiracy doesn't break, through the Johnston connection, then it never will. Because it will mean that there simply isn't one."
As Naked Truth says, and Patrick believes, Levi may not be Trig's dad. If Bristol was "disappeared" away from Levi in Dec. 2007 or so, Sadie may not know Bristol was Trig's mom. They may have become BFF after Bristol returned to Wasilla and resumed dating Levi. If Sadie was not allowed to see Tripp in January, she may not know Tripp hadn't been born yet.
I hope we'll learn more from this outburst, but I won't assume that Sadie knows all. Levi knows more than Sadie but is less likely to talk. He has Tripp to think about.
I'm serious fellow bloggers, I am really feeling that Levi and his family have no clue that Bristol was pregnant with Trig. I have read some of the comments on ADN and other sites about the breakup and I think too many of us are convinced that Bristol is the victim here. Bristol and Sarah planned to hide Bristol's pregnancy. Bristol was hiding it from Levi because he wasn't the father and Sarah was hiding it from the world.
The faked pregnancy idea came about when Trig was found to have DS.
Think about it. Can you imagine being the guy from the wrong side of the tracks having a thing for the Governor's daughter? Bristol tells Levi that she is being forced to leave town because her parents disapprove of her seeing him. This makes Levi want her even more because you know how in high school and in life 'the chase is always better than the catch' and at some point in life most of us have wanted something that is 'off limits'.
I believe that no one outside of the Palin family and a few medical people (of course, CBJ) knew the truth about Bristol giving birth to Trig. The Johnston's may suspect something is not right but they are just like us, they have no proof.
More will come out later. The naked truth is always chasing a well-dressed lie.
Mary G. said, "I still can't figure out what Stapleton is doing releasing teen-angst statements through the PAC."
The press was pestering the Gov's office for comment. Announcing a grandchild is one thing. Acknowledging an article in Star Mag is another.
Rather than look like there's no other side to Sadie's story, Sarah had her PAC issue "Bristol's" (yeah, right) statement. Since it was a campaign rather than the Gov's office that had said Bristol and Levi were going to marry, it's a campaign/PAC now saying they're not.
That's my guess.
It's possible Sarah knew Sadie would sing and managed to have her do it now. I saw a comment about Sadie's story distracting the media from Sarah's botching of the pipeline project. I assume they're talking about the amazing (to me) story of how she got all of her legislative initiatives to the Alaska Lege too late.
Ladies & Gentlemen: Introducing the most powerful woman in Alaska: Mercede Johnston.
Naked Truth wrote:
I think what we will possibly hear next is Levi, Sadie or Sherry stating that SP moved Bristol away in late '07 and early '08 to keep her away from Levi because the Palin's thought Bristol was too good for Levi. But the real reason Bristol went away was to hide a pregnancy that Levi had nothing to do with.
So if Bristol is Trig's mother (And I think she is.) who is really Trig's father?
I agree with the plausibility of this speculation. I think that if the Johnstons know that Bristol was pregnant with Trig we will know it soon. If Levi is the father, he would know about it. If he isn't, the Johnstons may not know and they could have hid Bristol to protect her relationship with Levi going forward.
In that case, Sadie's myspace photos could just reveal her false understanding of the situation. But then why were they scrubbed?
This combination of circumstances means one of two things:
1) Levi is Trig's father and we'll know that soon
2) Live is not Trig's dad and if Trig was born in early Feb as some speculation, he was not several months premature.
Either way, I think it's likely that the Johnstons know the truth about Trig IF (big IF) Bristol is his mother. If Willow is Trig's mother, the Johnstons probably DON'T know about it or if they did, they may not say anything to protect innocent Willow. Even with the level of acrimony that could exist now between the Johnstons and the Palins, I don't think they would rat out Willow to punish Sarah and Bristol. They would rat out Bristol and Sarah to punish them, however.
It's going to be an interesting week.
Dangerous
Did anyone catch the Today Show this morning? In the first half hour they had a news piece on the break-up, with commentary from the news director at People Magazine. He said "Bristol and Levi will continue to work together to raise their sons, er, son..."
I sat straight up in bed!! What a Freudian slip!
One thing on the upcoming Sherry Johnston trial. We have not seen what she has been charged with. What we know is that she was arrested in a "sting" operation when people contacted her trying to buy some of her oxycontin prescription from her.
She could have been totally set up.
By whom? Who knows?
Why? Who knows?
I have to wonder if the timing of the break up bombshell has been coordinated to gain publicity for SP upcoming speaking tour. Today's Anchorage Daily News has details
http://www.adn.com/palin/story/719704.html
Good find, Leadfoot. That is indeed the most interesting slip by the people spokesman. For those who are interested, here is a link to the video:
http://tinyurl.com/af7jal
The "slip" is about 2:04 minutes in, but the whole thing is worth watching.
Craig asked:
Question: Why would the Palin's purposely antagonize the one group of people who could blow their cover-up sky high?
________________________________
I haven't read through all the comments so please excuse me if this has already been said.
You make the mistake of thinking the Palins are rational, like you and I. They have a false sense of their own importance and believe the Johnston clan would not DARE to cross them out of fear of the almighty Palin power. Remember, there may be some truth to this, because lots of folks in Wasilla are frightened of these goons.
I believe they underestimate the power of money dangled by tabloids in front of desperate people with a good story to tell. They can always go into a witness protection program after spilling their guts.
But as some have pointed out, the Johnstons may not even know the whole story -- it's just so convoluted. I think the best thing is to just congratulate yourselves, guys, for dogging this story but realize we'll never know the real truth.
Keep GINO from ever holding public office again -- not even as dog catcher. Especially not dog catcher.
The latest revelations support my curiosity regarding whether the 2 babies have the same father.
Based on the photographs of both babies, they look NOTHING alike. Even considering the DS characteristics of Trig. Trig looks almost exactly like any of tthe Palin daughters, but Tripp already looks just like Levi, with his oval face and elongated almod eyes.
The supposed comments of Bristol about greed clouding judgement...how transparent! Anyone who saw Greta's interview has to know Bristol is barely articulate!
Naked truth,
I think you may be on the right track, Levi may not be the father of Trig. Sadie may have just been talking about her BFF's new baby. This might account for no beans being spilled yet. SP, Toad, BP and CBJ, may be the fabulous four who cooked up and executed the whole charade.
Now, there was a bit of rumor dropping going on over at mudflats yesterday, regarding Bristol getting high school credit(?)for helping out the high school swim coach. Seems she is spending a lot of time garnering credit, and tounges are wagging about this 30 year old teacher and our busy teen.
Probably, just more Desperate Housewives mumbo jumbo, but...
Thank you everyone for your collaboration!
Dangerous is right, "It's going to be an interesting week."
"That is indeed the most interesting slip by the people spokesman. For those who are interested, here is a link to the video:
http://tinyurl.com/af7jal
The "slip" is about 2:04 minutes in, but the whole thing is worth watching."
I went there, but after about 10 seconds of starting the video, it jumped to the next video. No matter what I tried, it wouldn't stay and finish any of the videos! What am I doing wrong?
Just brainstorming here, but what if --- just what IF -- Levi fathered Trig, but not Tripp??
Knowledge of that could certainly spur a break-up. And wouldn't it put a new spin on the "We were ALL suprised comment to GVS?"
Contrary to KayKay's thought, others have commented that Trig looks like Levi and Tripp not so much. Just thinking outside the box and wondering how Tripp's date of conception lines up with Levi's North Face job.
FWIW, and for sake of accuracy, Benet on the Today Show said raise "their kids" together, not "sons", and corrected it to "child" together, not "son."
I agree with Ann Hedonia. Palin is such an ambitious narcissist that she thinks she's got everyone snowed about everything. Another good example of Palin-level hubris is Blagojevich. The have him on tape clearly talking about selling Obama's seat, and he still thinks he's being victimized. You have to wonder if there's anyone in Palin's work circle who knows the truth. I doubt it.
That dull splat you heard yesterday was the #*&$ hitting the fan at the Governor's office in Juneau.
Did anybody see (on Mudflats) that Bristol (and Tripp) were "whisked" through the Anchorage Airport and onto an airplane yesterday,,, presumably to Juneau?
Somebody flashing a badge got her onto the icy tarmac and the heck outta Dodge.
Damage Control Flight 101, you are clear for takeoff!!
kaykay,
I think it is a toss up for who was more inarticulate...Bristol or Greta! I'm thinking GVS was not up against Katie Couric for the Walter Cronkite award she won.
Ivyfree, I don't know why it's not working for you. I just cut-and-pasted the URL into my browser window and it played fine.
Maybe you can to to the Today show website and type Palin into the search field. That will bring the video up on their site. Perhaps you'll have better luck viewing it that way.
My verification word is gamea. :-)
So, if the Johnsons were complaining that the Palin's wouldn't let them see Tripp, back in Dec, could it be that there was NO Tripp until Jan/Feb??
Punkinbugg said, "Did anybody see (on Mudflats) that Bristol (and Tripp) were "whisked" through the Anchorage Airport and onto an airplane yesterday,,, presumably to Juneau?"
And then the Today show said the Johnstons can see Tripp anytime.
As long as they fly somewhere?
Quotes to remember:
It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret Anne Kilkenny - Wasilla resident
"Palin is a whack-job" Top McCain Aide
"Bristol's just crazy. That's the nicest way I can put it," Mercede Johnston
We only get CBS Morning News here in Latin America, and they had the Editor of People, not Lorenzo Benet, on this morning discussing the breakup. So, why is Lorenzo Benet (the "Trailblazer" author) the editor people sent to the Today show? and maybe, he's mis-speak is based in some truth he actally does know...hummm?
Ann Hedonia said;
"You make the mistake of thinking the Palins are rational, like you and I."
**********
To me, this is a default argument that allows anything that would be considered contrary actions for someone trying to pull a scam, to instead be simply dismissed out-of-hand.
"They have a false sense of their own importance and believe the Johnston clan would not DARE to cross them out of fear of the almighty Palin power."
********
Frankly, the Johnston's don't have much more to be afraid of. They have been painted in the press and internet as low-life's, the mother is going to be convicted of some degree of a drug charge and is getting divorced, the son is now outside of the Palin family and his work options are limited, and the daughter is burning bridges with her buddy Bristol.
Tabloids and others are ready to seize the moment and are going to throw money and other incentives at this family to see what inner secrets can be bought. If the family feels that the Palin's have turned their backs on them, what better way for revenge than to dish some dirt, not to mention some explosive, career-altering dirt on Sarah.
Other than Sarah's parents, the Johnston's have had the loosest lips with the press up to this point already. No one can convince me that either Mercedes and Levi wouldn't have been privy to some teenage secrets over all these months.
Folks, this is make-or-break time for the truth. Don't be afraid of the moment. Step up and confidently embrace it. Either pieces of the conspiracy puzzle are going to start dripping out in the coming weeks, or they won't. Either way will be very telling.
Morgan said...
...For those who are interested, here is a link to the video:
http://tinyurl.com/af7jal
The "slip" is about 2:04 minutes in, but the whole thing is worth watching.
March 12, 2009 9:52 AM
~~~~~~~~~~
In that same clip, after the 'slip' about Levi helping raising 'the kids', the 'People' guy also said that Tripp now is TWO MONTHS OLD!!! Today is March 12, or 03/10/09. So, the baby *should be* THREE and a half months old, since *supposedly* he was born DECEMBER 27/08...
Craig said:
"Other than Sarah's parents, the Johnston's have had the loosest lips with the press up to this point already. No one can convince me that either Mercedes and Levi wouldn't have been privy to some teenage secrets over all these months.
Folks, this is make-or-break time for the truth. Don't be afraid of the moment. Step up and confidently embrace it. Either pieces of the conspiracy puzzle are going to start dripping out in the coming weeks, or they won't. Either way will be very telling."
I agree with you here. I ,like you, do feel that Sadie and Levi have some info that they can share that will help us understand more about Bristol's where-a-bouts the Winter of '07-'08 but I really don't think that they were part of this deception. And the reason why I believe this to be the case is because Bristol was pregnant with Trig but Levi is not the father. She and SP had no reason to involve Levi in this deception. Better yet, IMO she did everything in her power to not let Levi know. Like moving to Anchorage and probably telling him that her parents made her move to keep them apart.
Also, as you say yourself that 'the Johnston's had the loosiest lips'. IMO if they knew for sure that Bristol was pregnant with Trig and Levi was the father, they would have slipped and told already. I think the Palin's used the Johnston's big time! The Johnston's have no real proof just like us. But I do hope and expect for the Johnston's to provide some pieces to this puzzle.
Nobody knows about this big deception but The Palin close family members, CBJ and 1-2 other Medical professionals and possibly someone close to SP - I say Bill Mcallister and he may only suspect the truth but not really know.
You are jumping the gun, Craig, if you think that the Johnston's silence or lack of knowledge about this deception can only prove that SP is the mother of Trig. IMHO, it can also prove that Levi is not the father of Trig and he and his family were just kept out of the loop.
I am with Dangerous, this should be an interesting week.
OK. I scr*wed up. I guess Tripp should be TWO and a half months, almost three months old, not three and a half...
If it were untrue that Bristol and Levi are the parents of Trig, one would think that Mercede and/or Levi would spill about that.
While that story would not be explosive and worth as much to the tabloids, you would think that the tabs would be happy to pay a little something for having them say, you know, this gossip is just untrue.
Apparently, there has been no comment one way or another. Is it possible that Mercede or Levi haven't sung out of concern for Trig? If the deal was that it would be best for all concerned for Trig to be raised by a wealthy governor and would grow up believing that Sarah birthed him, wouldn't they be selling out their own son/nephew if they told the truth?
There's no way that Bristol was moved away to keep her away from Levi AND because she was pregnant. If they wanted him to stay away from her (or vice versa), Bristol being pregnant -- with or without his child -- would certainly be enough for that.
They might hide Bristol so that she could stay with Levi if and only if Bristol was pregnant by someone else. I still don't subscribe at all to the Bristol x 2 theory, no matter the fathers, but particularly with different fathers. That's where the circumstances are now.
Dangerous
I don't think we'll hear details from any of the Johnstons.
I believe the names of Todd and Sarah Palin appear on Trig's birth certificate as those documents change from the names of birth parents to adoptive parents following legal adoption. An earlier birth date than April 18, 2008 most likely explains the reason the Palins have not released the birth certificate.
At the close of adoptions, birth parents like Levi and Bristol surrender all parental rights. I believe Levi and possibly his family signed a legally biding non disclosure agreement at the time of adoption.
If the Palins would lie about the date of Trig's birth, then they are certainly capable of lying about the date of Tripp's birth. Vice-versa the boys names.
Sarah could end all the speculation tonight. She could release the birth certificates for Trig and Tripp.
Naked Truth;
I don't think that if the Johnston's stay silent that it is absolute proof of anything. But it certainly gives some credence to the idea that the "official" birthmothers may be accurate. Otherwise you have to widen the scandal to another father and the possible dynamics of another circle of people being expecting to maintain complicity, and things look even more convoluted.
Certainly, at minimum, Levi or other Johnston's could blow holes in a 12/27 birth for Tripp, if there were deceptions being played with that event. So, continued silence in that regard, or even additional confirmation by one of them of that specific date, would be significant, at this point.
If a true blockbuster Palin deception gets splashed on the news, courtesy of Levi or Mercedes or by their mother, I'll be the first to acknowledge that the "official" story may be in doubt after all. But at some point, people may also have to acknowledge that an aspect of this whole story now fits uncomfortably outside of the narrative they want to believe.
It's a two-way street.
Since there is some question about when Bristol started dating Levi, isn't it possible that she was dating both Levi and another fellow at the same time? Levi thought he was Trig's father, but maybe the other fellow is? Maybe that's why Levi dumped Bristol?
Someone suggested that maybe Mercede doesn't know all the details re Trig. If she and Bristol were such good friends, wouldn't Bristol have told her everything?
If Sarah & Todd legally adopted Trig, even if Bristol and Levi signed papers saying that they would keep silent, along with surrendering their parental rights, maybe Mercede and/or Sherry didn't sign any such paper, meaning they could spill the beans if the wanted to. If Mercede is mad at Bristol (teen friendships can be as fragile as teen romances), she might sing. Or Sherry might sing, in anger at the Palin family...especially in exchange for money from the tabloids.
"Now, there was a bit of rumor dropping going on over at mudflats yesterday, regarding Bristol getting high school credit(?)for helping out the high school swim coach. Seems she is spending a lot of time garnering credit, and tounges are wagging about this 30 year old teacher and our busy teen."
She is 18, and evidently she's not registered as a student... so they're legal. Tacky, but legal.
If you haven't checked out the clip on the immoral minority...a reporter from People Magazine discussing Bristol and Levi...you might find it quite interesting.
Craig said:
"Otherwise you have to widen the scandal to another father and the possible dynamics of another circle of people being expecting to maintain complicity, and things look even more convoluted."
What makes you think that the real father knows about the pregnancy? It's possible that he may not even know. Or maybe he does but for some reason he doesn't care or doesn't have the right to care. I also have other speculations about the possible father of Trig but it would not be fair to Bristol.
Craig said:
"It's a two-way street."
I agree and I am glad to see that you feel the same way.
Molly @ 8:59
Regarding the zoo picture, also notice Piper's arm...and compare with other pictures and you will see a bigger upper arm...left arm in the photo.
I was just reading that Sarah may be heading out of town for SarahPAC related travel, to an event on April 16. It made me wonder if she'll be racing back to celebrate Trig's unofficial first birthday. Then I thought when do you celebrate Trig's birthday each year? Did you ever see Everybody Loves Raymond, when Robert found out his actual birthdate was different than what he'd been celebrating all his life, because his actual birthday would prove his parents had fooled around before marriage? It's just not right! So, let me be the first here to wish Trig a belated happy first birthday!
penny
Ivyfree said about Bristol's possible 30 year old boyfriend:
"She is 18, and evidently she's not registered as a student... so they're legal. Tacky, but legal."
True, but it makes me wonder just how long Bristol has been into older men.
You know we have speculated on this blog in the past about CBJ specializing in child abuse and that Bristol or another SP kid could have been her patient at some point.
Who is this 30-year old? I know he maybe excited about an 18 year old hottie who happens to be the governor's daughter but I am very curious about his interest in Bristol so closely after giving birth. Could this relationship be an old but new one? Meaning that they are picking up where they at some point left off and Bristol now being 18 makes it 'legal' or o.k.
Just my opinion. I am from a small town and none of this surprises me.
I had a friend in high school who got pregnant by a 20 year old that her mother did not like and did not know the extent of their relationship. She was 15. She had a 'for-show' boyfriend her age but was not very interested in him. When she got pregnant she put it on her 15 year old boyfriend so her mother would not file charges against her 20 year old boyfriend. Yes, it happens more than most of us would want to admit.
Craig said:
I don't think that if the Johnston's stay silent that it is absolute proof of anything. But it certainly gives some credence to the idea that the "official" birthmothers may be accurate.
I can't agree, Craig. You seem to put a lot of credence in the false notion that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Silents gives credence to nothing except that the party choose not to say anything.
*They may know nothing and say nothing.
*They may know something and say nothing.
*They may know nothing and say something anyway.
We know SP lied about the wild ride. Period. End of story. If you would like to play her in a cross-examination, I'm ready. Listen to her taped interview with Lisa Demer and try to stand up to my cross-examination. Pick a position: it was urgent she get to the hospital in Palmer or it wasn't. Based on her statements -- HER STATEMENTS -- it was both and neither.
Her ACTIONS say urgent, but not because she was in labor, because her ACTIONS were not consistent with a woman in labor.
You can't shrug off this evidence because Trig's birth mother hasn't been ascertained beyond a reasonable doubt. The indictment of SP stands. She lied. She might not have faked, but she definitely lied about the wild ride. Based on the earlier unsupported pregnancy announcement and her failure to produce evidence under her control, the indictment for faking also stands.
Even if Bristol falls as a candidate for Trig's mother, the indictment stands because at least I still have a plausible alternative mother for Trig: Willow.
So to play your card, but the right way, SP must now prove that she's Trig's mother or both indictments stand. If she lied in the wild ride and she was in labor and travelled 12 hours with a quadruple-high-risk pregnancy, then I'll substitute another indictment for reckless endangerment.
In summary, she doesn't slip out of the noose just because she can stonewall us from proving our case.
Dangerous
Truthseeker2
I tried to provide the site I found that provided info from Levi's blog...but I think it didn't make it through moderation.
So, maybe it was rumor...I don't know.
But I did find this interview with Levi on HuffPost (10-13-08) and one thing I noticed Levi said he dropped out of school to take an apprentice job on the North Slope. Also, he said he met Bristol in his freshman year (how old was she) and that they planned to marry before the pregnancy. So, that all I know.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/13/levi-johnston-speaks-on-b_n_134088.html
Re: Dangerous' Post @
March 12, 2009 8:27 PM
Great Post! Only you could have so eloquently stated why we must continue to seek the truth about SP.
Thanks for your continued contributions.
The naked truth is always chasing a well-dressed lie.
These were the two posts on mudflats that prompted my comment:
Philip Munger (09:42:18) :
Bristol IS attending Wasilla High School. She goes in at least two times per week to work or volunteer as a teacher’s aide to the WHS swim coach, with whom she appears to be spending a lot of extra time too also.
He posts shortly thereafter:
Philip Munger (10:50:09) :
At least Matt isn’t married. BTW - my source isn’t alleging an affair, just that along with Bristol working or volunteering as his assistant or “aide,” she is spending other time with him. No details past that.
So, perhaps he is just a shoulder to cry on, and a rational adult, of which there are very few in Bristol's world!
I don't think it hurts to investigate possible other relationships for Bristol, as it may give us insight into her decision making process.
Penny
We can only hope that Levi and Mercede will now tell the complete truth to the tabloid reporters.
Naked Truth has a point.
Say Bristol likes older men. She dated one before Levi, when she was 16. Sarah faked to avoid a criminal scandal with a baby daddy three or more years older. The dad would never claim Trig because he would be charged with a felony. Bristol then dated Levi, but now that Levi has moved on and she is 18, she is free to date older men again.
The swim coach moved to Palmer around January of 2007. This could be a resumed relationship. He would never claim Trig if he wanted to continue as a teacher and coach. But no reason to think he is the older man in the theory.
So I heard Sarah is heading out of town with funds from Sarahpac. I wonder if she will be joining Britney Spears in her Circus Tour.
"So, perhaps he is just a shoulder to cry on, and a rational adult, of which there are very few in Bristol's world!"
I agree, Penny. It seems like a leap to say Bristol's having an affair with an older man simply based on the time she's spending with a coach. Absence of any evidence it seems like a rather low-road rumor best taken with a grain of salt.
"Who is this 30-year old? I know he maybe excited about an 18 year old hottie who happens to be the governor's daughter but I am very curious about his interest in Bristol so closely after giving birth. "
Maybe it's me, but I don't get the conviction that the governor is so important. I don't see why going with the governor's daughter is such a big deal (unless you know the governor is corrupt and might give you something, or you're corrupt and you're hoping the governor will give you something).
I'm pretty sure my governor is married, but I have no idea what her husband looks like. I think she may have kids, but I'm not sure about that, and I wouldn't be able to recognize them if she does. Is this seriously something that people pay attention to, in their own states? There's so much talk here about how people would recognize Bristol, or might get confused if one of the cousins was a stand-in, and I think: who WOULD recognize one of those kids, before the VP run?
Dangerous;
I agree that the Johnston's silence on the birth questions would not be proof in itself. I am just saying that as more and more resources for information come up dry (on this specific issue) as time goes by (journalists, tabloids, political operatives, political enemies, bloggers, lawyers, locals, individuals with likely close ties (Johnston's)), the cumulative weight tends to favor the probability that the conspiracy, in terms of birthmothers, is less and less valid.
The absence of conspiracy validation will never, by itself, prove anything completely. But, just as people may feel that accumulated circumstancial/speculative data collectively makes their case, I would agrue that to some degree, that an absence of true credible, hard evidence over time, despite the collective research/input of the resources mentioned above, begins to put more and more pressure on this high-risk baby-switch conspiracy narrative to maintain relevance.
Everyone here will likely disagree with that point. So be it.
Levi and company are in a position of confirm some important details however (Tripp's birthdate, Tripp's delayed appearance, Bristol's wherabouts over time, possible prior pregnancies, insight on Sarah being Trig's birthmother, etc.).
I'm sure something will come out of their camp over time. The bigger the bombshell, the more $$$$$ it could bring in. Which they could really use right now.
What they say will be very telling.
Morgan said:
It seems like a leap to say Bristol's having an affair with an older man simply based on the time she's spending with a coach. Absence of any evidence it seems like a rather low-road rumor best taken with a grain of salt.
I agree there is no evidence that she is having an affair but you must admit that an 18 year old young woman spending time with a 30 year old man makes for an interesting rumor. I don't know many people who wouldn't wonder what is going on with this friendship, especially in a small town.
I also learned by growing up in a small town that to every rumor there was usually some truth. I can remember hearing rumors about myself and wondering, 'How in the hell did they find that out?' Of course, the story wouldn't be quite right but it would have something about it that was definitely true.
Interesting....My intuition tells me that we may hear more about this relationship. But for now I agree, we are only speculating and know nothing for sure.
To Craig et. al.,
There's one set of conclusive information that SP can't control. Perhaps we should do an Alaska Freedom of Information request for SP's insurance payment records related to her 'pregnancy' and 'delivery' in order to determine how much it cost Alaskan taxpayers. If there aren't records, because she didn't use the state's plan, we have to wonder why not. If she fights it, we have to wonder why.
If we really want to resolve the issue, that's the best way to do it. Anyone have contacts in Alaska, particularly an attorney who will do this pro bono?
Dangerous
***MODERATOR NOTE***
Yeah, Naked Truth, I agree that it makes for an interesting rumor. But I would imagine a coach spends a lot of time with kids, as he is a mentor. But given the high profile cases of teacher/student relationships in the media, these relationships can raise read flags. And in small towns almost anything can make the rumor mill start to grind.
I guess this is why I'm allowing this line of discussion, but am also watching it carefully.
We don't want to go too overboard with our theories in this vein without further proof.
I don't think we can extrapolate that "Bristol likes older men" or that this coach could be her kid's (kids') - if indeed Bristol is Trig's mom - based on a couple of comments penned on another blog.
Let's try to be careful, folks. But even moreso, let's try to be fair.
***FROM THE MODERATOR***
Just an FYI. If anyone has any questions about moderation or just wants to gripe or bitch at me in general, it's better to do it via email than through the comments section since I don't resolve issues in the comments.
That email is thetokenhippie@gmail.com
I can't promise my responses will always be satisfactory, but I will answer your email.
This won't contribute a darn thing to the complex investigations already on board, but I must say that today's comments about how things work in a small town sent me to the way-back machine and my high school (and even junior high) days. That's when a girl would suddenly disappear and the word would go out that she had to enroll in school in another town for a while, to help a sick aunt (always an aunt). Often, the girl would return to graduate with her original class, with never a mention of the time off, because by then someone else was raising her baby as their own. However, if a girl had to go take care of ANOTHER sick relative, all bets were off. Official tramp status, maybe a shotgun wedding, or even banishment to the big city. Oh, well. The more things change...and we all know how to finish that sentence.
Hey - I have to comment - can we say "an older man may have been interested in Bristol" rather than "Bristol is into older men?" No matter how much Bristol seems to be resembling Sarah these days, she was at one point an innocent in all this. A teenage girl who is hit on or seduced by an older man is a victim, not a slut.
Rationalist... i agree with you
We are talking about someone that just turned 18 ... so anything prior should be viewed as the "older" person as being the questionable character
It can be spinned; however, if Bristol "falls" for these "older" guys.. that usually represents something like trying to get that fatherly figure thing.. sometimes, at least
and the discussion of the Palin's not being real hands on parents.. which includes the papa palin.. could play in here
"I agree there is no evidence that she is having an affair but you must admit that an 18 year old young woman spending time with a 30 year old man makes for an interesting rumor. "
If she is not registered in school as a student, but is going twice a week to the school, one naturally wonders why... especially as she is missing these precious first few months of her child's life. Yes, maybe she just welcomes the break. And maybe the coach was told, "Don't piss off the governor's kid." But we don't know whether he welcomes her help or not, that is, if she is hanging around him.
Ivyfree, I think the Governor's family in Alaska is very well known and of great importance to many people. First of all, remember how few people actually live in Alaska. In 2008, the popualation in the whole state was less than 700,000 - this is fewer people than in Columbus,OH or Memphis, TN. Second, we all have seen how Sarah puts her whole family front and center and drags them everywhere with her. Next, there are few true celebrities in Alaska - no pro sport teams or well-known entertainers. Plus the GINO does have an attractive family.
Also, the top politicians in Alaska seem to have the ability to turn anything they touch into gold. And Bristol is a very attractive young lady, who comes from a prominent, well-off family.
However, if she is getting graduation credit by assisting the swim coach, in Ohio it would be verboten for him to have any type of romantic involvement with her. Because she is 18, he would not end up in jail, but he would lose his teaching license. Perhaps the laws are different in Alaska, but I think the swim coach should be careful.
***MODERATOR ALERT***
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Commenter FW over at Immoral Minority must have bought a Star so we don't have to. FW said...
Here's some more form the Star Mag article:
RE BRISTOL: " She's cruel and unfair. Levi isn't even allowed to take the baby for a few hours on his own unless Bristol wants to go shopping or hang out with friends....One time Bristol came to pick up Tripp and didin't even get out of the car. She just screamed. 'Bring my damn baby out to the car!'."
Hmmm...the apple doesn't fall far from the tree does it?
More:
"Mercede adds that Bristol and Sarah told a pack of lies during the Fox interview-including the whopper that Bristol is going to graduate from school in May. 'Bristol isn't working, and she's not in school', Mercedes insists. 'She was taking the sertified nursing assistant class for beginning nursing, but she dropped out because she didn't like one of the girls in her class. As far as I know, she hasn't gotten her GED or high school diploma either.'"
'Things are not as Bristol described them with everyone pitching in, Mercede says. "Sarah is away from home too much for that to happen. From what I know of that family, I don't see anyone helping oput at all. Not even Sarah.'
Continues.."But Mercede says she does know that Sarah really wanted Bristol to marry Levi. And. according to Mercede, Levi was supposed to accompany Bristol to her TV interview in spite of their bitter split and child visitation issues-and was crushed when Bristol told him she didn't want him there."
"' They had been planning it, and it was all set,', says Mercede. 'Then the day before the interview Bristol sent a text message to Levi saying, I hate you, and when I found out I was pregnant, I wished that the baby wasn't yours.'"
I have no comment, but my word verification is "treig." Silent e.
B, if you're posting comments just to see the word verification you're having too much fun. ;-)
My verification word is phose?????
Morgan,
As in, "Bristol and Sadie are now "phose," not friends.
Thank you, Rationalist, for your comment. It doesn't seem appropriate to think of Bristol Palin as Monica Lewinsky de nos jour.
Thanks also for the Star quote, so I don't have to read it in the supermarket aisle.
The Huffington Post is warming up today--there are two articles and a whole lot of comments. How they need a moderator like our wonderful Morgan! The
comments are full of "Je Suis" postings and a whole lot of snark. Someone has mentioned Palin's Deceptions in the comments, might be why we have all these new
readers.
B
'Bring my damn baby out to the car!'
SarahPAC and Levi are saying inaccurate!
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