I just spoke to her, and she wants you all to know that she's feeling more like herself and is preparing a new post with some very interesting photos that are sure to poke holes in more of Sarah's carefully crafted claims.
Until Audrey gets the post prepared and up, please consider this an open thread. But as moderator let me gently remind you that an open thread should not be considered a free-for-all. The general rules of civility apply, as does the long-standing restriction against topics that have been deemed forbidden by the blog owner.
I noted in an earlier thread that in Audrey's absence, Patrick, Kathleen, Mary G. and other members of the PD research team have done a marvelous job in keeping the discussion moving. There are other members of the team hard at work, too, and if there was ever a group that deserved a round of virtual applause it is these people.
So as Sarah Palin would say, give them a shout out. And look for Audrey to be back soon.
Morgan
PD Moderator
457 comments:
1 – 200 of 457 Newer› Newest»Thanks to all of you, including Morgan. And Audrey, get well soon!
For the sake of discussion, I would like to point out that the bio by L. Benet says that Palin heard on Dec. 4 from Dr. Cathy Baldwin Johnson that Trig had Down Syndrome.
Audrey has already done some research on this, so as a starting point to the discrepancies, I recommentd going back to an Oct. 24 blog Audrey did for this site (if you don't want to search through a lot of posts, go here:
http://tinyurl.com/blmhbg
In that interview, Palin says or assents, to the idea that she had amnio done "in early December" when she was 12-13 weeks along.
We know she can't really count--but this would not correlate to a May duedate.
I wonder if Patrick could move his post with the boxnet researches over here???: )?
To those who believe a premature Trig with a heart problem couldn't have gone home after two days -- whether or not he actually did -- please revisit this post from this weekend:
JillyG said ...
My daughter has DS and she was born about 6 weeks early. She weighed 7lbs 8oz! She had a heart defect but it was small and is supposed to heal on its own over time. She also had jaundice and yet in spite of all of this we went home at the normal time - 2 days after birth. . . . I wanted to breastfeed her but as it's been noted it's common for babies with DS to have low muscle tone - and she also has a high/narrow palate so she could not latch properly. I was able to pump enough to feed her almost exclusively breast milk for her first year. For all of these reasons, (and I've surely missed some of them!) I feel that the whole approach from the angle of DS and how it should be handled is just not wise. . . .
February 28, 2009 7:24 PM
Thanks for continuing to look into this. I look forward to reading what you've uncovered.
Good to hear Audrey in on the mend.
I'm sure you have all seen it, but just in case, TruthSeeker222 put together a very good timeline of events based on Palin's travel during the time right before Trig's conception and through the pregnancy -
http://www.flickr.com/people/33163903@N05/
Together with the photos, there are so many holes in Palin's story it's beginning to look like a wornout and torn up fishing net
I would like to post again the links to our first summaries (three PDF-documents). I also would like to stress that these summaries are a team effort of our dedicated PD research team - I myself am not the main author.
The research team has not only been searching for new information about this case, but we've also started to outline and summarize the information that is now available. We are posting a series of summary outlines here so that all he bloggers can review them and give us feedback. If you see something that you don't understand, or that you disagree with, or notice something that is missing, please let us know. You should consider all of these summaries to be drafts -- works in progress.
Here are the first summaries for downloading:
1. Summary: Why SP's birth story is implausible
http://www.box.net/shared/5ni2f80hlx
2. Summary: Available accounts of Sarah Palin's labour and birth
http://www.box.net/shared/xsa7xyuale
3. Summary: Status of investigation of SP's birth story
http://www.box.net/shared/ba2euu1syk
Patrick (PD Research)
Get well soon, Audrey! Thanks for those outlines, Patrick! Yes, thank you to the team -- moderators, researchers behind the scenes, and the cool crew who write in.
Patrick, I would make sure to include somewhere in your outlines the fact of the two stories that have come out about the announcing to Mom of the pregnancies of Bristol (I am in the 2 for Bristol camp): the "harder than labor" one she described in the Greta interview, and the "ha ha I'm pregnant" accompanied by waving the test stick around and giggles by all (reported in the Sherry Brit Tabloid interview).
Although Bristol implied that the "harder than labor" announcement was Re Tripp's pregnancy,it makes so much more sense to me that that was when the Trig pregnancy was announced, with its undoubtedly dark story of who the Dad is. And the "ha ha I'm PG" has got to be for the Tripp pregnancy, when we are all savvy veterans of how to deal with an unexpected pregnancy, and Levi is described as almost a son-in-law.
While not proof, these are quotes by Sherry and Bristol, which is pretty powerful as sources go.
Advance knowledge of Trig's DS makes no sense to me. Having an amniocentesis seems odd for a pro-lifer, CBJ's saying it happened means nothing because the letter is a fake (supported by no mention of the heart defect in that letter), and no mention anywhere of all the complex logistics of DS birth and infancy (the MD appointments, the therapy, all the arrangements) further suggests that the DS was not known in advance of birth -- and by then (however much earlier than April 17 doesn't matter), SP was hot and heavy into the VP thing, at least in her own mind.
Thank you, B, for bringing my words up again because it's a little frustrating to feel like nobody is reading them LOL. I am just a regular mom, totally on board with all of you here in believing that SP is NOT the mom of Trig - and I felt the need to share my very real and very honest experience with my own baby with DS.
DS is not a "fragile health" sentence fwiw. Yes, there are many things that we need to be watchful for (RSV, flu, leukemia, etc) but in general a baby without a *significant* (read: needing surgery) heart defect will pretty much be like any other baby for a long time - other than muscle tone issues affecting milestones etc. My daughter walked at 15 mos - on the early side for DS - and she was "floppy" for her infancy - but with therapy she has developed into a very strong - even athletic! healthy little girl of 8!
Trig IMO looks exactly like he should for a baby with DS born about a month early. I could share pics of my daughter if anyone wants to compare, just let me know how!
ProChoiceGrandma: Great post at the end of the previous thread. I'm with you on each point.
The Feb meeting (not telecon) with McCain that I am thinking of was this:
"SP meets McCain for first time. According to the New Yorker article: "McCain had met Palin once, but their conversation--at a reception during a meeting of the National Governors Association, six months earlier [Feb ?? 2008] -- had lasted only fifteen minutes."
Also: "•First wearing of giant scarf 2-19-08 (on palindeception website preMarch photos)."
Isn't it obvious that there ARE photos from the AHA lunch but they are being supressed. Rigorously supressed. Successfully, so far.
CBJ protecting ONE young person? How about several people?
We have not mentioned substance abuse much in this blog, but I thought it was mentioned on the MySpace-type pages that were removed. And we have the Sherry example. Put that together with who CBJ might be protecting. I say more than one.
My personal scenario for how the CBJ letter was written is SP asked CBJ for a letter, and CBJ wrote one. But the letter did not say what SP wanted it to say, so she altered it on her own, taking some stuff out, putting some stuff in. No heart defect, because that wouldn't fit with the lack of announcement about complications at the time. Weird selection of testing, as we have noted, like a non-MD might do. Prob took out some other little pesky details, (like routine meds [Prozac! diet pills! methadone!], previous health things). Who cares if it was a surprise to CBJ that SP did this? She's stuck and can't rebut.
Why did the GOP put the CBJ letter out? How about "in the confusion of the last moments of the campaign, when everyone knew it didn't matter any more, and if there was some problem with it it would be SP's problem -- and 'serves her right' if there is a problem."
Welcome back NY tabloid chick! Great point about "we don't know his (Trig's) name for sure." It brings up the thought that his birth certificate might have an entirely different name, parents, etc., making it lots easier to deal with hospital, hiding, needed services, ins., someone else can bring him, "prove" with the BC that he is someone else -- and also explains why the BC cant be shown. The sort of thing you could fix up later, get a fake one when needed; much easier if there hadn't been all that VP-related scrutiny.
I agree that if Trig was born much prior to 4/18, then Bristol is his mother.
There are still lot of whole in that theory, however, includng explanations of where Trig was, why SP took the wild ride, why she waited to start faking until after Trig was born (when he could have been discovered at any time), and why she would fake at all instead of just saying that they were adopting an abandoned child.
Were rumors that Bristol was pregnant enough to force a late-decision on faking because adopting an infant would raise too many questions? Wouldn't a late pregnancy announcement raise just as many?
One direct piece of evidence would scuttle all that circumstantial evidence, but there isn't any yet.
It seems the late-Tripp camp of the Bristol Mom x 2 has folded. I'd like to point out that you're putting far more effort into proving Bristol is Trig mother than I've had to pressing the Willow theory. You haven't gotten any closer, and the travel records, particularly no travel after March 28 when Willow went one-way to Wasilla, is strong circumstantial evidence.
Dangerous
JillyG -- Just wanted to tell you that I read your posts with great interest. Always. I know it feels like we are shouting into a well, sometimes, when no one responds directly -- I know I feel like that on a bad day. But rest assured, my tiny brain perks right up when I see your name because you are reporting from the front -- the actual world of real-life mothering -- which is so different than the Hallmark-card, stereotypical ways one tends to see something one is unfamiliar with.
I know that I found parenting to be a completely different thing than I had imagined. A huge learning experience, and one realizes that Moms understand a whole lot of stuff that non-Moms dont. This is a big deal for me because I was a non-Mom for so long before my boys were born. And ditto when I try to understand the world of DS parenting.
So just to thank you for your insights, which have really had the ring of experience and authenticity for me. Please: keep writing in, okay?
Oh, geez, my word is "bless." And yes: bless you! And your daughter. And us all, including all the innocent ones who are being whirlpooled into SP's giant vortex of deception.
I'm anxious to hear the newest developments but will be patient as I know the team wants to make sure all ducks are in a row :)
I have to agree with Dangerous that we be careful about becoming too wedded to one theory that we might miss important clues that point to other possibilities.
That being said I am still of the mind that most of the evidence thus far points to BP being mother to both and the motives for SP to fake a pregnancy more apparent given the timing of the McCain lock on the GOP nom and her sudden announcement. It seems that the released travel reports give a very clear picture of the whereabouts of the Palin women during critical periods and that, paired with other cirmcumstantial and direct evidence, may be the most significant developments to date.
There is no question in my mind that SP was not pregnant...the photographic evidence, the wild ride story and her behavior around Trigg, particularly her awkwardness at his 'unveiling' two days after his birth. I refer to the way she poked at him...hardly nurturing.
Keep up the good work people...the cards are falling all around her.
Diana
Thank you for all your hard work on the timeline.
I looked at the link you sent to the VoxBox comments and could unfortunately find no mention of the 2007 proms. The comments are all from November 2008 and I think that they refer to the proms during that year.
As Bristol left Juneau High School in May 2007 I think that it is extremely unlikely that she attended one of the 2008 JHS proms. Perhaps she did attend one in 2007 but as far as I can tell the proms that year did not attract any negative media attention.
Kathleen
OH!!!!! my word verification is expriest! Given the subject matter of those comments I find this hysterically funny.
Dangerous said, "It seems the late-Tripp camp of the Bristol Mom x 2 has folded."
Can't speak for anyone else, but I still think that Bristol is mom to both and that Tripp was born after 12/27/08. I haven't folded. Yet.
Amy1 said, "Isn't it obvious that there ARE photos from the AHA lunch but they are being supressed. "
Yep. But if Bristol (and Willow) were in them and not pregnant we would have seen them by now. I still think Bristol wasn't there.
Hi Diana/Truthseeker222,
I am going through your timeline to see how Sarah's schedule fits into my spreadsheet of the girls' travel expenses.
After the time of the Governor's Ass'n trip to DC on Feb 2/22, you mention a town hall meeting on 2/27/08 at the Carlson Center for AGIA.
The Carlson Center is in Fairbanks, and AGIA stands for Alaska Gasline Inducement Act. The Carlson Center was also the venue for the AHA Go Red for Women luncheon the week prior to this.
Do you think they both flew home to Anchorage, and then Sarah continued on to Fairbanks?
Do you know if there is an expense report showing HER airline tickets, or do you just have the girls'?
ALSO -- regarding her wearing that same brown & aqua outfit in the school photo as well as the walk-to-work video. I have always maintained that she read to those kids on 2/13/08 (same day as walk), based on the elementary school add-a-day calendar in the background. Wonder if that was done on the same day, or did she just love that outfit?
There is a good picture on SP Gov. web site at the Dec. 2007 Holiday open house she is wearing a blue velvet jacket, it's a side view and she is not showing even a bump at 5 to 6 months. All the information regarding her non pregnancy, and her labor story the only conclusion is Trigg is not her birth child. She maybe covering for two family members, we don't know why she is lying, but her ability to lie about anything and everything is a matter of fact.
Thank you to everyone, and well-wishes to Audrey. Everytime I read any of this I hear Judge Judy saying, "If it doesn't make any sense, it isn't true!"
(I read a lot more than I post...which would astound my friends, lol)
Re: Summary A.1. a.i & e.i
I don't think Sarah herself ever used Bristol's pregnancy to say Bristol couldn't be Trig's mom. It was McCain aides who did so.
When I first heard the rumors about Trigg possibly not being Sarah's child- I was rolling my eyes and frustrated. Why make up such a ridiculous story when they had no proof. Surely, I thought, if it went far enough- they could just produce a birth certificate.
Upon hearing that Bristol was pregnant- I thought perhaps the McCain/Palin's decided to toss a false rumor out there - just so when the real news about Palin's daughter came out, it'd seem less shocking.
Curious about where such a rumor came from- I searched for all the info online I could find. Looking for Palin pictures and words directly from her.
The bizarre story about flying during labor from Tx to Ak- lead me to believe one of two things. 1 The baby wasnt' hers
2. Even more disturbing- she took no normal precautions with the life of her unborn special needs baby. Was she hoping God would take the baby because she didn't want to be "burdened"? Why would a mom take such a risk knowing aleady she was having a special little one? She didn't tell others- couldn't share that with her own children. Being her 5th child - she probably wasn't expecting a long labor. (Would love to know how long the other labors were)
How many mom's do you know who enjoy a car ride in labor- let alone a plane flight from TX to Ak?
Re: Summary A.1.e.iii
Do we know Bristol was living with Heather in late 2007? I thought we just knew she left Wasilla mid-school-year. Could be early 2008.
Do we know Bristol wasn't living with Heather in the late spring or summer of 2008 when she was pregnant with Tripp?
The published reports are probably a slip-up but I can't recall proof.
Hi everyone, I've been following all along, but never posted a comment. Diana, your timeline is great, one thing I picked up: Piper was kept away from Bristol early 2008, & she probably believes Sarah is the baby's mother. That's why it's hard for them to tell the truth.
Me again, one other thing to say. I believe Trig was born early Feb, one month early, & THE DS was a surprise. Sarah had made November Adoption Month, indicating that option was being considered. THE DS made the baby hard to place for adoption, they realized they would have to take care of him. It was after Trig's birth, that Sarah started wearing a huge scarf, & later on March 5th, announced she was pregnant. I think the hoax came about, because of the DS diagnosis, & getting the baby proper care, with good medical insurance.
*** Dangerous said...
I agree that if Trig was born much prior to 4/18, then Bristol is his mother.
There are still lot of whole in that theory, however, includng explanations of where Trig was, why SP took the wild ride, why she waited to start faking until after Trig was born (when he could have been discovered at any time), and why she would fake at all instead of just saying that they were adopting an abandoned child.***
The problem with this line of reasoning ("Why would she....?") is that we're not looking at these weird behaviors contemporaneously with the weird behaviors. These are the behaviors of someone who was popular enough within her limited circle to be able to explain things away without being pressed, AND someone who we now know to be really unable to take advice. These are the statements of someone who is used to getting her way (and having not a little bit of vengeance on those who try to impede her). She travels in a circle of 'true believers' who wouldn't be even thinking to 'discover' any lies. And why would they bring it up now? For example, there's gotta be at least one suspicious nurse, but does he/she want to lose a job, especially now? And why did SP take the wild ride? It's not a wild ride for a non-pregnant woman, but it sure made for a good frontier tale that got believed for a long time. Why wait till after the birth to fake it? Because until Trigg's birth, I'm close to certain that SP was working to get Bristol to give him up for adoption. Sending her away to live with relatives, leaving school... it's like a '50s knocked-up-teen melodrama. Why fake at all, instead of saying she was adopting an unwanted child? Because there were already rumors about BP being pregnant, and if SP later 'gives birth' like she did, the rumors among her base would diminish or disappear ("Oh, those stories about BP... someone must've heard there was a pregnancy in the family and assumed it was BP when it was really SP!"). And absent all of her other lies, many of which were brought to light only AFTER she was on the national stage, these stories would've just faded into SP folklore.
***Were rumors that Bristol was pregnant enough to force a late-decision on faking because adopting an infant would raise too many questions? Wouldn't a late pregnancy announcement raise just as many?***
No, because there were rumors about a pregnancy in the Palin family. And gosh, also, all of those pajama wearers spreading boring rumors about my daughter didn't even realize it was me who was pregnant, doncha know, also.
***One direct piece of evidence would scuttle all that circumstantial evidence, but there isn't any yet.***
Or the flood of circumstantial evidence to the contrary of SP's story will continue to grow, as it has been. I think the expense reports and travel document examinations will be, as someone else said, be the Al Capone nail in the coffin (after which everyone else will slap their collective heads and go, d'oh).
***It seems the late-Tripp camp of the Bristol Mom x 2 has folded. I'd like to point out that you're putting far more effort into proving Bristol is Trig mother than I've had to pressing the Willow theory. You haven't gotten any closer, and the travel records, particularly no travel after March 28 when Willow went one-way to Wasilla, is strong circumstantial evidence.***
I'm in the late-Tripp camp, and I'm not folding! I'm doubling down on Bristol x 2, early Trig, late Tripp. You're obviously entitled to keep to the Willow theory; I just don't find any of it compelling. I can see a 17/18-year-old Bristol keeping this secret for the good of her family and to make sure her parents don't cut her off; I can't see a 12/13-year-old doing the same. But any opinions to the contrary are helpful in establishing good working theories, and the only thing I'm 1000% on is that SP didn't give birth to Trig.
I was married to a doctor for over 25 years. I'm sure the CBJ letter was low priority for her, they are too busy for things like that, just a nuisance. She only wanted to stay out of legal trouble, & did the minimum possible. Sarah probably altered her letter, oh well whatever. CBJ again, being a doctor, doesn't get bogged down in minutia. She's more concerned about her reputation & staying out of legal trouble.
Not sure if my previous e-mail went through, about Bristol likely having the DS baby. He was born a month early, likely early Feb. Adoption had been the favored outcome of her pregnancy, which had been hidden from Piper. After the DS was diagnosed, it was evident they would have to keep the baby. Shortly after, Sarah started wearing large scarves, & then announced her fake pregnancy, IMHO.
I also believe Trig was in NICU in Anchorage, until about mid-April. Being married to a doctor for over 25 years, they take NO CHANCES letting babies go home too early, they have malpractice to worry about. The baby likely was small, had irregular heart situation, jaundice, & diagnosis of DS, which was a surprise IMHO.
NO WAY was this baby was not in an incubator in NICU! Even though Jilly had DS baby, she was larger & stronger, it sounds like. A friend of mine had a DS baby about 15 years ago, he could not come home until myself & others took classes on the oxygen he needed, & what to do if the heartbeat was irregular. It was extremely stringent, his dad was a doctor, they took NO CHANCES with his care.
Especially since Trig was related to Sarah, THE GOVERNOR. This baby obviously would have been closely monitored in NICU, never being allowed home, until all precautions had been taken. This includes time for the heart issue to be absolutely resolved, time for the jauntice to be completely not an issue anymore, & intense education provided to all those who would help care for this DS baby. From all that I've read, Trig would in no way, be released home in 2 days, to the Governor, much too much risk involved IMHO.
jo said...
There is a good picture on SP Gov. web site at the Dec. 2007 Holiday open house she is wearing a blue velvet jacket, it's a side view and she is not showing even a bump at 5 to 6 months.
Jo, if the due date was 5/18/8, then Sarah would have been only 4 months along at that Open House, though you'd think there'd be a bump at that stage of a fifth pregnancy.
Karen said...I believe Trig was born early Feb, one month early
Welcome, Karen!
Just wondering why you think Trig's due date was early March instead of mid-May.
I think the shower pictures in early May show a baby about the right size to be born, rather than one two months past his due date.
Mary G., I need to re-read all that stuff. But especially since it was someone other than Sarah actually having the amnio, and since she wouldn't have had one before, I bet she got confused about when the mom heard of the DS possibility vs. had the amnio vs. got the results. Maybe she even confused counting weeks since conception vs. since last period.
THANK YOU to all of our deligent researchers, moderator (who's saved me from being too snarky!)and contributors! This is my first and favorite blog because of EVERY ONE'S efforts.
I just spent a couple of days on a river that flows from Costa Rica into Lake Nicaragua. I was thinking how important family is to the people here. It's simple, they love each other, period. It made me think how unforgiving, vindictive, superficial and self-serving this "Christian" woman is. Her kids deserve better. They have all strayed so far from what is truly important and real. It's hard to imagine the Palin children will ever be able to raise children of their own who will know unconditional love and normalcy.
Sorry to lay it on so thick, it's just a sorry situation, you wouldn't wish on any child.
penny
The case that SP wasn't pregnant is strong. We have direct evidence and a mess of circumstantial evidence, and her failure to rebut it with easily produced direct evidence under her control.
The only whole for exceeding reasonable doubt among an impartial observer is providing some direct evidence of who Trig's birth mother was. We have none on either Bristol or Willow. We have circumstantial evidence on both -- more on Bristol than Willow, I agree -- except Tripp creates a timeline problem for Bristol x 2. That theory requires more speculation on circumstances which create more possibility for direct evidence that SP could not control nor expect to control at the outset of the faked pregnancy scheme.
That's my answer to NY Tabloid chick. You spin scenarios to explain everything, but that just creates contradiction you can't explain away. Faking a pregnancy successfully is hard. You don't plan a wild ride -- as you and others have suggested -- just to make yourself look better. You go as low profile as possible, and conclude the ruse when nobody is looking. You don't go out of town putting the scheme at risk if there's any chance you have to claim the baby.
The circumstantial evidence, and SP's decisions during that time, do not support Trig already being born. You would never get an impartial person to believe it. If you were testifying about it as some sort of expert you'll get crushed on cross-examination.
Hidden-Tripp theory is stronger, because at least we didn't see him for nearly two months. It doesn't require speculation on circumstances that would leave lots of direct evidence out of the Palins' control.
If you can't convince me, you won't convince an outsider -- and I'm with you on SP faking because the evidence is so strong. For Willow, all I have to do is explain her travelling in Feb and March. I think they just disguised her pregnancy, which nobody was looking for from her. That's half the battle in hiding the preggo!!
My opinion is that semi-hiding Bristol was a ruse to keep attention away from Willow. Bristol didn't get pregnant with Tripp until the heat was off.
I'm still waiting for evidence -- not speculation or conjecture -- that conclusively eliminates Willow. Six months and counting. I'll trade you Bristol's car accident for Willow's honor roll.
Dangerous
B @ 1:50 said: "Yep. But if Bristol (and Willow) were in them and not pregnant we would have seen them by now. I still think Bristol wasn't there."
Yes, or that it is/was common knowledge that she WAS there, but turns out it was actually a lookalike, which no one really noticed at the time, but even with lots of turning away from any photographer, and lots of shaking one's long hair over face, releasing a photo of the lookalike would be v risky. All kinds of issues like height, tiny details, exact patterns of hair, or ear configuration -- it would give it away and constitute proof -- maybe.
You know how obsessed with details those pesky jammy-wearing bloggers are when they go down to their parents' basements. (Cue in hysterical laughter here.)
Someone who was there at the AHA lunch, and who didn't give it much thought at the time -- as who did?? -- has been reading this blog or another one, and has gone back and looked at the photo or two s/he still has access to, and by God, the scales fall off eyes! So eventually that person, who for sure doesn't want to get mixed up in any of it, but does want to do the right thing, will shyly slip that photo into the USPS mail, anonymously, to Audrey, or Patrick, or someone else, and VOILA!
And they'll call it an "overnight breakthrough!" Like the "overnight success" of an actor who has been working obsessively for 20 yrs before that one lucky moment.
Not sure if Patrick already talked about this resource--all travel of SP is listed in the state records by year. This is link for 2008:
http://tinyurl.com/azah7u
Thanks to all who are working to get to the truth.
I hope you get well soon, Audrey. The flu season has been especially wicked this year. Some of my family members have been sick for more than 3 weeks.
I am of the Trig was born early, and Trip may have been a little later than stated, theory. I don't know when we will know for sure, but I do know that Palin will be found out eventually.
Hello Jo
Could you please send a link to the blue velvet jacket picture from 2007.
Could it possibly be this picture? Or another one from that day?
http://gov.state.ak.us/large_photo.php?id=216
If so that was taken in December 2008 after Trig's birth which was reported as having been in April 2008.
Kathleen (PD Research)
Karen,
thanks a lot for your comments!
I fully agree with your comments in 5:00, 5:09 and 5:14.
No doctor would have taken any chances with the baby of the Governor.
Patrick (PD research)
I have heard the following:
Cathy-Baldwin Johnson had an interview with Lisa Demer from the ADN back in 2008. For this interview, she appeared together with her lawyer (which raised eyebrows). Asked by Lisa Demer whether she delivered Trig, CBJ said that she "could not confirm that".
Just to make sure that any new readers are aware of the travel authorizations for Bristol, Willow and Piper from 2007 and 2008 - these are compulsory reading for anyone he is seriously interested in this subject. I strongly recommend to print them out, because 141 pages are just too much too read on the screen. They can be downloaded here:
http://www.box.net/shared/9cogbgnkko
Furthermore, I would like to point out that SP's official schedule from March and April 2008 which was obtained through FOIA request is also available for download. Note that SP had an extremely busy morning on the 17th April 2008 - after her water supposedly broke the night before...
(schedule until the 18th April 2008, some days added for February)
Please download here:
http://www.box.net/shared/clahh4tas1
And don't forget to take a look in the Sarah Palin birth guide:
http://www.box.net/shared/tfq47t7tie
:-)
Patrick (PD research)
Also available for download:
The audio-file of the press conference that SP gave after the "birth of Trig" (press conference from 21st April 2008):
http://www.box.net/shared/zbok63zyah
Patrick (PD research)
Oh, this is funny - see here:
http://tinyurl.com/b5fzdm
"Sarah Palin Movie in the Works
February 09, 2009
by: Bridget Daly
Sarah Palin’s 15 minutes of fame is not over! A movie about America’s favorite Vice Presidential candidate is reportedly in the works. And it gets better! Two of Hollywood’s top screenwriters are both in a fight to write the script!
Sarah managed to become one of the top news stories of 2008, and was a major topic of controversy prior to Election Day. But drama makes for a great story, which is why these screenwriters are eager to write the script.
And these aren’t just any old writers. They’re Dustin Lance Black who wrote Oscar-nominated Milk, and The Visitor scribe Todd McCarty. But the two have very different visions for the movie. Black wants to focus on the humorous aspect of Sarah Palin, while McCarty wants the movie to center around Bristol Palin and her boyfriend, and their surprise pregnancy.
Black tells Variety, "I'm always down for politics as humor. I'm also interested in great characters."
McCarty says, "This young man gets his girlfriend pregnant and ends up on the Republican platform at the National Convention. There's a dark comedy there somewhere. He was like a deer in the headlights."
Both of them sound intriguing! We’d like to see a combination of the two! Maybe they’ll work together and write the script. Either way, we want to see this movie made! Who do you think should play Sarah Palin?"
(I think Tina Fey would be the ideal choice for the role)
Patrick (PD research)
Karen,
the "irregular heartbeat" you speak of is not the same as the heart defect that is common in babies with DS. In our situation, a quick ultrasound showed a "hole" or "abnormality" in or between heart chambers (AV canal defect I think it was?) but it was small enough that they sent us with a script to see a cardiologist in a month. No big deal, I am telling you it's true. It's COMMON. a month later we went to the cardiologist and he confirmed that this defect would either heal on its own or not, but that it was not SIGNIFICANT and warranted no extra care besides a watchful eye on their part over the years.
Whatever heart/health issue your friend's baby with DS had can not be compared to Trig's sitution because it's obvious to me that Trig is healthy. I stand by my belief that he was a month early like many babies with DS are, and he was born "healthy" and went home on day two, again, like many babies with DS do. Jaundice these days is not a huge deal unless it's beyond what can be handled with some sunshine. A lot has changed in 15 years, especially with regard to DS.
There are WAITING LISTS for adopting babies with DS btw. In the US and abroad. Now, I would be wiling to bet that IF SP wanted a quick, secret adoption this would not be her route so in that regard I can understand why the adoption would fall through - but it's a misconception that babies with DS are not adoptable - the opposite is true.
I don't mean to be argumentative but I do get defensive sometimes because there is so much old, incorrect information out there.
Trig was 6lbs something, right? That is not a fragile "preemie" weight. I was a 5lb full term baby myself!
I am still believing that whenever it was that Trig was born, he was healthy enough to go home on day two - there is no reason to assume he had a NICU stay IMO.
My 2 cents on the question of either Willow or Bristol being Trig's birth mother --
there is no evidence at all that Willow looked like someone who had just given birth at the RNC convention, whereas Bristol definitely looked like a person who was brestfeeding
there is just too much circumstantial evidence that Bristol is his birthmother
Willow's personality seemed to be relatively ok -- a child that young having just given birth, in my opinion any way, would be showing more outward signs of depression and emotional upset especially under the glaring public eye. I doubt she would have the will and emotionally maturity to fake being ok all the time in public - even for an adult that is not an easy task (unless of course you are Sarah Palin who is hard wired to lie)
To B: Thanks & I was just throwing out some opinions & thoughts of mine. I felt the baby might have been born early Feb, or sometime in Feb. The May due date was given as Sarah's due date (on March 5, 2008)& makes no sense for Bristol. Why should we believe anything Sarah claims, as THE TRUTH?
I just feel that Sarah would not have taken credit for having the baby, unless it was known to have DS. This would have made adoption next to impossible, plus they wanted the best medical care for the special needs of Trig. Sarah wore her first big scarf mid Feb, by then she was weighing options how to handle the surprise DS birth to Bristol.
DS is not generally expected in young girls, & would give credence to Sarah being the mother, with her age. I don't feel Bristol was tested for DS, uncommon in that age group. I feel Sarah lied about the phone call from CBJ to her office, Dec. 4 2007. She only stated this at the time of her announcement, I think. She wasn't even pregnant, at that time, she was posing for Vogue magazine!
All we have is Sarah's word about the date of births for Trig & Tripp, who believes anything she says anymore? It was a devised plan to deal with the unexpected pregnancies.
Lastly, after being elected GOVERNOR, one would suppose at age 44, that she would make sure not to become pregnant while in office, she is too career motivated. Surely she uses some form of contraception, like birth control pills. Women who are 44 generally DO NOT want more babies, when already having 4, & would be sure to prevent this from happening. I'm over 50 with 4 kids, & I know the feeling of having 4, chaos, but I love all of them dearly. Thanks, Karen
B-I am still working on the various accounts about the "early testing" Palin claims was done. She could very well have gotten information in Dec. regarding Trig and the mother who was carrying him. Whenever she gives an interview or goes on record with something, it is so delightful because she contradicts what she said earlier. However, no one in the MSM has followed up on these inconsistencies.
JillyG, I appreciate your comments and wise words. Your perspective is important, and shows that Palin is not the first or only mother to take a heroic stance with regard to a child with Down Syndrome.
I laughed when I saw the lavish celebration for this year's AHA luncheon. Someone got a pay off.... And I think a certain first family was not invited this time.
But who knows? Since KTVA did the newsclip on this year's Richard Simmons extravaganza, perhaps they'll "dig" out an interview Andrea Gusty did with Governor Palin and her daughters from last year's Go Red for Women event. I can't wait!
Hi JillyG,
Thank you for sharing your information about DS on this and previous posts. It is helpful for all to understand more about DS.
On your post at 4:50am, you stated: “I am still believing that whenever it was that Trig was born, he was healthy enough to go home on day two - there is no reason to assume he had a NICU stay IMO.”
You are giving great weight to what was stated in the CBJ letter released by the McCain campaign. I don’t trust ANYTHING in the letter purportedly from CBJ. We know Sarah Palin did not give birth to Trig, therefore CBJ is complicit in the lies and loses all credibility for any statement in that letter, as any or all of it is intended to mislead. We do not know if Trig actually had any health issues that required a NICU, but I strongly believe that he was born much earlier than 4-18-08 and he was kept in hiding either in a NICU facility or by a family member or private care nurse until Sarah could establish her six-week long pregnancy. The fact that the CBJ letter dated 11-3-08 said Trig was able to go home in two days was intended to verify that Sarah Palin took her “newborn” baby to work on 4-21-08.
I recently saw a 7 week old baby who was a preemie. If I had not been told he was 7 weeks old, I would have thought he was 2 days old.
NYtabloid chick, I think you make a good point. I keep going back to Bristol's interview with GVS, where Bristol says what infuriated her most about the tabloids was them saying her mother made her have the baby when "it was MY decision." I suspect Sarah sent Bristol off to her aunt, intending to hide the pregnancy and give the baby up for adoption. But at some point--probably February--Bristol balked and refused to give up her baby. THAT is when Sarah started wearing the scarves and launched into her very tardy "I'm pregnant!" scheme.
What made Bristol change her mind? It could have been that a private adoption set up fell through after the discovery the baby had DS; it would still have been possible to give the baby up as there are people waiting to adopt DS babies, but perhaps Bristol was only willing to give up the baby if she knew who it was going to. Or perhaps she simply found herself more attached to the baby as it grew inside her. Or perhaps Trig was born several months premature, in February, and once she saw him she couldn't give him up. She wouldn't be the first.
JillyG, add me to those who've found your information on DS babies very educational. I understand now that Trig could have been born at six pounds a month early and have gone home in two days with his heart problem and jaundice. However, I suspect he was born even more prematurely, perhaps in February, which would have required a stay in the NICU.
Dangerous -- the wild ride was NOT planned. It is wild only in retrospect, and assuming she was PG, which she was not. It developed as a story only after the fact. The ride was so NOT wild that it attracted no attention from the airlines staff.
You said: "You don't go out of town putting the scheme at risk if there's any chance you have to claim the baby.
" That would be true if SP didn't have this dual agenda: Faking the preg was important mainly to keep the VP hopes alive. So taking care of business on that front (i.e., going to TX for that conference) was really important.
So it makes sense to me that SP was tending the fires of her VP hopes with as much priority as she was tending to details of the hoax. If the hoax fails, the VP hopes fail; if the VP hopes fail, continuing the hoax becomes much more simple, easy, less risky.
I also dont understand this: "Hidden-Tripp theory is stronger, because at least we didn't see him for nearly two months." But if Trig was born in Feb, we didn't see him for 2 mo either.
James: Where did you hear that re CBJ? Sure fits.mingul
Lady Rose said:
My 2 cents on the question of either Willow or Bristol being Trig's birth mother --
there is no evidence at all that Willow looked like someone who had just given birth at the RNC convention, whereas Bristol definitely looked like a person who was brestfeeding
there is just too much circumstantial evidence that Bristol is his birthmother
Willow's personality seemed to be relatively ok -- a child that young having just given birth, in my opinion any way, would be showing more outward signs of depression and emotional upset especially under the glaring public eye
Bristol also 'looked' like a pregnant woman. Hence, your conclusion based on an observation is conjecture, not fact.
Also, your psycho-analysis for Willow from her appearance on TV is compelling. I guess my wife's judgment was dead wrong when she said it looked like Willow was "melancholy". Let's see: Lady Rose's judgment or my wife's? Hmm.
How about: neither. Both are pure conjecture.
As to the circumstantial evidence Bristol is the mother, there's one HUGE circumstance that she isn't: she was pregnant at the time!! Oh. That's right. She had Trig a lot sooner. But there's no evidence of that, direct or circumstantial, so that's a speculative circumstance, not evidence.
If we continue to create circumstances out of thin air to support our theories, we become just like the nuts who think Obama was born outside the U.S. because his birth certificate must be a fake because he was born outside the U.S. That's circular reasoning, folks, and it makes us look foolish.
Bristol must be the mother of Trig because Trig was born earlier than April 18 because Bristol is Trig's mother. Or, Tripp was born later than December 27 because Bristol is Trig's mother. That's the logic I see again and again on these threads, and the longer everyone has to rely on it to make their theories work, the less likely the theory is correct.
We can convince ourselves of anything, but that doesn't make it the Truth. Belief is not the same as fact, and conjecture is not the same as evidence.
Dangerous
Interesting info about the Bristol AHA luncheon plane rides being booked so last-minute...... almost like it wasn't planned for her to attend because she was expected to be indisposed (very pg) at the time? Then, when she gave birth in early Feb, they saw a chance to "prove" the pg rumors false by having her attend the AHA event a few weeks post-partum? I gave birth to an 8pound plus baby at the age of 35, and bounced back fairly quickly. Sure, I wasn't in all of my pre-pg clothes, but I was in my larger non-maternity clothes a few weeks out.... and I'd think a teen would bounce back much faster. So, it could be that she gave birth somewhat early in early Feb (who knows the real due date?), then decided to attend the AHA event to give some cover to diffuse ongoing rumors of her pg at that point? Why else for the late purchase of tixs?
And that photo in the dress outside on a deck? In the large image, you can def. see what looks like a baby bump to me.... it has that gentle downward slope that is a tell-tale pg sign, usually. (I suppose it *could* be the result of panty hose riding down, but am skeptical-- do teens even wear panty hose these days?).
Dangerous-- you mentioned awhile back having a theory piece on Willow as mother.... can you email me a copy? yellowgirlnc at yahoo dot com
THANKS!
Yellowgirl
Palin was wearing the scarves back in Jan.I found a picture that was taken Jan.26 2008
when she spoke to the NEA delegate assembly in Anchorage.She wore a red jacket and a big
yellow scarf and I do mean big.
THANKS for the update!! I was starting to get worried that this site was dying away.
I do believe that something will happen that blows this wide open. This site needs to help make that happen.
**FROM THE MODERATOR**
I've gotten a couple of emails and comment asking what "PD Research" stands for. It's Palin Deception Research, and at least one of the PD researchers signs his comments that way.
There are several who post here, as well as numerous others who work behind the scenes and either don't post or post without identifying themselves as being part of Audrey's crew.
Hope this helps.
Mary G said: "perhaps they'll "dig" out an interview Andrea Gusty did with Governor Palin and her daughters from last year's Go Red for Women event."
IS there such an interview???
Bravo for keeping us rigorous, Dangerous. It makes us stronger!
"I agree that if Trig was born much prior to 4/18, then Bristol is his mother.
There are still lot of whole in that theory, however, includng explanations of where Trig was, why SP took the wild ride, why she waited to start faking until after Trig was born (when he could have been discovered at any time), and why she would fake at all instead of just saying that they were adopting an abandoned child."
I'm really just brainstorming here - since I'm far from an expert on this topic and obviously don't have any proof - but it's possible that the plan was originally for Bristol (or Willow) to quietly have Trig and then give him up for adoption. If there were no pre-natal tests performed, they might not have been aware of the Down Syndrome.
Before the birth, Sarah Palin talks to Dick Cheney, Bill Kristol or some McCain staffer about the possibility of a VP appointment. Palin is told that her chances hinge on her ability to rally the religious conservatives to the McCain ticket.
For reasons that I don't really understand, Palin is viewed by many pro-lifers as being a kind of savior of the movement for having a baby with Down Syndrome.
Could she have then decided to fake the pregnancy only after the birth, when the Palins realized that Trig had Down's?
If Palin realized that having a Down's baby would be seen as an inspiration to the religious right, she might have surmised that McCain would feel compelled to ask her to join the ticket as a way of wooing those voters.
And the "wild ride" could easily have been a case of Palin fibbing to her dad, not realizing that he'd immediately go blabbing everything to the media.
Dangerous said:
"I agree that if Trig was born much prior to 4/18, then Bristol is his mother.
There are still lot of whole in that theory, however, includng explanations of where Trig was, why SP took the wild ride, why she waited to start faking until after Trig was born (when he could have been discovered at any time), and why she would fake at all instead of just saying that they were adopting an abandoned child.
Were rumors that Bristol was pregnant enough to force a late-decision on faking because adopting an infant would raise too many questions? Wouldn't a late pregnancy announcement raise just as many?"
Actually, Dangerous, now that you have laid things out this way, I think that Trig being born in February is actually more likely. There is very little reason for SP to fake a pregnancy unless 1) there already is a baby, because if Trig had been stillborn or died shortly after being born, that would have left SP in an even bigger hole; and 2) she was aiming for the VP slot.
I'm also, for the moment, leaning toward BP as the birth mom, primarily because she was above the age of consent for Alaska, but I agree that WP is also a possibility.
However, positing Trig's birth at 8 months' gestation in February with BP as the mother gives us the following very rough timeline, which I think makes a lot of sense absent more concrete evidence:
1. Trig conceived in late June/early July 2007 (after school was already out, cf. BP interview). Isn't this also when BP was working two jobs?
2. BP disclosing pregnancy to SP and getting shipped off to aunt's house for school in Fall 2007.
3. SP declares November Adoption Month. (Possibly confident BP will give baby up for adoption at this point.)
4. Theoretically, amnio results come back showing DS dignosis (early December 2007). As others have pointed out, an amnio test is unlikely given SP's religious convictions. I suspect SP threw this out retrospectively as a further justification for not disclosing her pregnancy, which is also why she gave a date that doesn't make a lot of sense.
4. BP getting pulled out of school "midyear" (December 2007-ish) and basically falling off the radar screen.
4. SP meets McCain at governor's conference and realizes she has a real shot at becoming the VP (February 2008). She gets the brilliant idea of pretending Trig is hers to boost her appeal, and starts wearing big scarves. However, she does not announce a pregnancy at this point in time, to give herself some wriggle room in case something happens to the baby before, during, or shortly after childbirth.
5. Trig is born.
6. McCain clinches GOP nomination. (March 2008).
7. SP announces pregnancy (March 2008), picking most advanced stage she can get away with and still be able to give the keynote speech in April.
8. SP gives keynote speech and heads back to AK. I suspect that her original plan was to "give birth" at some point after she was safely back in AK but not everybody was completely briefed, hence the wild ride story (April 2008). Stats given to match Trig's current stats.
9. SP takes Trig in to the office to show him off (April 2008).
10. BP gets pregnant with Tripp (late spring 2008).
11. SP picked for VP nominee (August 2008).
12. SP fudges Tripp's conception a couple of weeks to maintain brilliant narrative of right-to-life working mom keeping DS baby.
13. SP's ticket loses Presidential race. (November 2008).
14. Tripp born, probably pretty close to given birth date (late December 2008). I think all of the secrecy and some of the fumbling were to keep the bidding open with the tabloids. IIRC, there was some kind of exclusive deal signed with People, wasn't there?
WRT discovery, I think that the Heath-Palin clan is big enough and with enough moving parts (so to speak) that under ordinary circumstances, discovery would be extremely difficult. Most of the hardest times to hide pregnancy and babies occurred during the winter, and all it would take is giving a couple of cousins matching coats to make it difficult for people to tell who they were seeing when.
Just my two cents.
Sorry if this is a duplicate - I'm having trouble telling if I'm signed in or not.
Dangerous has chastised some of us for conjecture and creating circumstances which fit our beliefs. Yet, in an earlier post, he/she (I think male, but not sure) offered the opinion that
"they" were semi-hiding Bristol to divert attention from Willow. Wow! How convoluted is that reasoning? Yes, I think we need to avoid circular reasoning and take care not to reject evidence that contradicts our favorite theory.
We are allowed, however, to speculate and offer conjecture that fits the known facts. I think one of the purposes of this blog is to fill in the blanks with our musings until we have more pieces of the puzzle.
I think most of Sarah's events are not so really planned but "spun" to cover prior lies and put her in the best possible political light. Something was happening in the valley on April 17, 2008 to get her back from Texas. I used to think it was Trig's birth (probably to Bristol)but now I'm entertaining the earlier birth theory and musing about what else might have happened.
Many think a failed adoption plan was the impetus for the fake pregnancy. That doesn't make sense to me. As Jilly has eloquently pointed out, DS babies are very adoptable. How about this? Bristol was pregnant and very much planned to keep and raise her child. Maybe she was preparing to venture out on her own if she had to. Sarah adamantly wanted the baby to be put up for adoption. When they learned about the Down syndrome, Bristol (knowing that as a young single mom she didn't have the resources to take of a special needs child )panicked and agreed to a compromise with Sarah. Sarah and Todd would legally adopt the baby so he would still be a part of the family with Bristol having the lion's share of his care. If Sarah was going to be legally and financially responsible for the baby, she darn well was going to get some attention and admiration for it as well as political capital. Hence, the faked pregnancy. Who the father is may or may not have entered into it. But I can almost hear Sarah saying something like: "You and Levi can have other babies, honey, when you're older and married."
In the Greta VS interview (part 2 i think) did I really hear SP say, "Yes, she (Bristol) helped raise these two."?? Since when are a 10 month old and 2 month old "raised."?
Here's how I see it:
We all have our operative theories. Every piece of evidence we get reinforces or changes our theories.
It is too early to discard all theories that don't yet have enough supporting evidence. It is not too early to discard all theories for which there is evidence that directly conflicts.
I don't think we'd be this far along if we hadn't taken an attitude of questioning almost everything. On the other hand, we can't use Palin's lack of truthfulness to assume that everything she said was a lie.
So if I say "I believe" a certain scenario, I don't mean in a faith-type way or that I am locked into it, just that that's the story into which I have so far fitted the facts without finding killer conflicts. The blog is a chance to test theories on others who also know the facts.
Patrick has suggested that we will soon have more evidence upon which to test our theories. That should narrow the possibilities, which we need to do. It will be very good for our progress.
That CBJ found it necessary to bring her lawyer to an interview with ADN about the Palin pregnancy story tells us all we need to know. She is concerned about her vulnerability as part of this hoax. It would be great if any members of AAFP would (respectfully) ask AAFP to investigate CBJ for her complicity in this hoax. The contact information is:
Dr. Ted Epperly, President
Board of Directors
American Academy of Family Physicians
11400 Tomahawk Creek Parkway
Leawood, Kansas 66211-2672
Dangerous said:
That's my answer to NY Tabloid chick. You spin scenarios to explain everything, but that just creates contradiction you can't explain away. Faking a pregnancy successfully is hard. You don't plan a wild ride -- as you and others have suggested -- just to make yourself look better. You go as low profile as possible, and conclude the ruse when nobody is looking. You don't go out of town putting the scheme at risk if there's any chance you have to claim the baby.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree with the above if "you" is a reasonable and rational person.
SP is NOT those things. This is a person that is used to getting her way AND used to NOT being questioned about things.
She expects (and seems to get) her inner circle/followers utter devotion and questioning her doesn't seem to even enter into the picture.
She lies in the face of revealed truths (troopergate investigation results for example).
She lies pretty much as easily as she takes breathe.
I think it's pretty safe to say that SP does not think like a rational/reasonable person and therefore trying to assign rational/reasonable motives to her won't necessarily always (or ever) work.
" Everytime I read any of this I hear Judge Judy saying, "If it doesn't make any sense, it isn't true!"
I'd tend to agree with this, but would like to point out that what makes sense for Sarah Palin might not make sense to anybody outside her family. I can't visualize any scenario that couldn't be addressed by saying, "We have decided to adopt a Down's Syndrome baby, whose mother has chosen to remain anonymous. Please respect her privacy." Problem solved. So... why the lies? What's in it for Sarah that is so important that she has to lie when there's no need? Is it that she just loves playing games with people? Or is there a there, there?
Oh geeze. My verification word is "liesses"!!!
http://www.gov.state.ak.us/photos/govopenhouse200702_large.jpg
I was wrong about the blue velvet jacket picture that was 2008, but this one is Dec. 14, 2007 open house wearing red, and there is no baby bump. Even if she was only four months along with a fifth child a pregnant woman would show. Especially a slim one. If the April date was the due date that would be five months. Trigg was not a premature size, but full term average size.
*** Dangerous said...
The case that SP wasn't pregnant is strong. We have direct evidence and a mess of circumstantial evidence, and her failure to rebut it with easily produced direct evidence under her control.***
While I agree the case against SP as mom is strong, we don't have any direct evidence at all. That doesn't bother me, though; if we're treating this like a legal case, with talk of direct and circumstantial evidence, we're all familiar with convictions without direct evidence (i.e. Scott Peterson). But yes, Sarah could've ended all of this speculation, had she desired to, long ago by providing direct evidence (i.e. DNA tests or a birth certificate). But I'm not keen on treating this like a court case; really, SP owes us nothing.
***The only whole for exceeding reasonable doubt among an impartial observer is providing some direct evidence of who Trig's birth mother was.***
That's not true in a legal sense and I think impartiality only exists in most reasonable peoples' minds until the point where the preponderance of circumstantial evidence becomes a steamin' pile so high it can't be ignored. I think it was Amy1 who pointed out several times that Trigg's mother isn't important; ultimately, it's a matter of removing the possibility that SP is the mother. Pointing to another 'culprit' may help, but at the end of the day, that's secondary to clearing SP.
***We have none on either Bristol or Willow. We have circumstantial evidence on both -- more on Bristol than Willow, I agree -- except Tripp creates a timeline problem for Bristol x 2. That theory requires more speculation on circumstances which create more possibility for direct evidence that SP could not control nor expect to control at the outset of the faked pregnancy scheme.***
One thing that SP controls very well, and tries to always control (and fails at miserably when she loses control, hi Katie Couric!) is dissemination of information. By moving Trigg's birthdate forward a bit, and moving Tripp's birthdate back a bit, SP satisfied the not-too-discerning eyes of her fan club. Didn't work so well on the basement pajama people! Remember to, that the bar she's got to pass for her base is pretty low. It's your friend with the cheating spouse, with evidence that's screamingly clear to you but to which your friend is absolutely blind, even to the point of dismissing everything that goes against their trust.
***That's my answer to NY Tabloid chick. You spin scenarios to explain everything, but that just creates contradiction you can't explain away.***
I'm not the one spinning! I'm interpreting what I'm seeing as an outsider, neither in the Palin fan club nor one of her constituents. I'm just trying to get inside the head of SP and imagine what she thought when she spun each of her tall tales. And if she hadn't gone national, none of this would've been scrutinized.
***Faking a pregnancy successfully is hard. You don't plan a wild ride -- as you and others have suggested -- just to make yourself look better. You go as low profile as possible, and conclude the ruse when nobody is looking. You don't go out of town putting the scheme at risk if there's any chance you have to claim the baby.***
Yes, faking a full pregnancy is hard (and just as a side note, it always seemed beyond bizarre to me that an adult with a steady job and supportive family would even think about hiding a pregnancy!). Faking for two months, not so hard, especially when you're faking to people who believe in you. I never suggested she planned the wild ride and I didn't see anyone else suggest it. I think a 3-flight day is perfectly acceptable/normal for a politician, and the only reason it became 'wild' is because of the story she made up to go along with it. Going as low profile as possible? I think that concept is foreign to SP! And as a woman torn between her political dreams and her family, I doubt she ever planned on having to go through with the wild ride.
***The circumstantial evidence, and SP's decisions during that time, do not support Trig already being born.***
Not sure what circumstantial evidence supports Trigg being UNborn at that time. The only evidence we have of Trigg's birthdate is SP's statement. That's it. And if this were a court case, we'd be instructed that if we find the defendant to lack credibility, we are entitled to dismiss any or all of her testimony. Again, without tying her travel that day to the birth of a child, the ride isn't wild. You're arguing in a circle here.
***You would never get an impartial person to believe it.***
I would daresay that this board is full of, and was started by, people who began as impartial viewers.
***If you were testifying about it as some sort of expert you'll get crushed on cross-examination.***
Again, if you're treating this like a court case, with SP as the defendant, you wouldn't need to provide alternate theories. All you're trying to show is that SP didn't give birth to Trigg. Patrick's photos; Diana's timeline: bang. The only way the prosecution would be crushed would be if SP had unimpeachable evidence (a DNA test), and if prosecution had that evidence, they wouldn't bring the case in the first place.
***Hidden-Tripp theory is stronger, because at least we didn't see him for nearly two months. It doesn't require speculation on circumstances that would leave lots of direct evidence out of the Palins' control.***
I'm still with you on hidden-Tripp, but I think there was also a hidden-Trigg at the front end. Much, much easier to hide Trigg in her fan club than to hide Tripp to a country that said thanks but no thanks to her candidacy.
***If you can't convince me, you won't convince an outsider -- and I'm with you on SP faking because the evidence is so strong.***
You're very attached to the Willow theory, I know. I don't find it plausible, and I tend to believe the Bristol theory, but really, neither matters; in your hypothetical court case, it's only SP who's on trial here. Bottom line, we both convict SP. The rest will come out later.
***For Willow, all I have to do is explain her travelling in Feb and March. I think they just disguised her pregnancy, which nobody was looking for from her. That's half the battle in hiding the preggo!!
My opinion is that semi-hiding Bristol was a ruse to keep attention away from Willow. Bristol didn't get pregnant with Tripp until the heat was off.
I'm still waiting for evidence -- not speculation or conjecture -- that conclusively eliminates Willow. Six months and counting. I'll trade you Bristol's car accident for Willow's honor roll.***
I don't think either incident is all that important or conclusive. I'm quite happy with my belief that SP didn't give birth to Trigg; how she used her children to perpetuate her fraud isn't all that important to me!
***Lady Rose said...
My 2 cents on the question of either Willow or Bristol being Trig's birth mother --
there is no evidence at all that Willow looked like someone who had just given birth at the RNC convention, whereas Bristol definitely looked like a person who was brestfeeding
there is just too much circumstantial evidence that Bristol is his birthmother
Willow's personality seemed to be relatively ok -- a child that young having just given birth, in my opinion any way, would be showing more outward signs of depression and emotional upset especially under the glaring public eye. I doubt she would have the will and emotionally maturity to fake being ok all the time in public - even for an adult that is not an easy task (unless of course you are Sarah Palin who is hard wired to lie)***
I agree, and I also would trust a 17-y-o to keep a family secret, and understand the importance of keeping such a secret, much more than I would a 13-y-o. And SP doesn't strike me as the type of person to trust people she's not 100% sure will keep their mouth shut.
(Verification: pheauc! I don't even want to pronounce that!)
midnightcajun wrote:
***JillyG, add me to those who've found your information on DS babies very educational. I understand now that Trig could have been born at six pounds a month early and have gone home in two days with his heart problem and jaundice. However, I suspect he was born even more prematurely, perhaps in February, which would have required a stay in the NICU.***
Yes, thank you JillyG (and everyone on this board; this is truly a group effort!). And yes, midnightcajun, I think the early birth is what flustered SP to the point that she resorted to sloppy padding. She had to fast-forward her slow padding plans and got messy; I also think she was so convinced that people loved her enough to not question her stories too much. Shades of Evita! And her overreaching ambition will be her downfall, since it brought her into the path of basement pajama people who don't love her.
I think we all have to re-adjust some of our positions and thoughts based on ANY of the misleading information provided by Sarah Palin. As I said, I am now convinced that Trig was born some time in late January or early February 2008.
Everything that Sarah has said, was said AFTER THE FACT, to fit her story.
Frankly, I think her trip to New York with Bristol in October 2007 was to see a specialist for an ultrasound and possibly Bristol had an amniocentesis at that time. Otherwise, they only learned AFTER Trig was born that he had Down Syndrome. She made up the story IN APRIL that she had gotten the call from her doctor on 12/4/07 with the DS news to conform with the reason she had not disclosed her pregnancy earlier. Poor Sarah.
I also believe that Sarah planned the trip from Texas to Alaska to officially “give birth” to Trig. However, the person who screwed up her fantastic plot was her own father, Grandpa Heath, when he announced that Sarah’s water broke in Texas. If he and Grandma Heath had been kept in the dark about Bristol, Sarah may have told her parents that her water broke and she was heading back to Alaska to give birth and in his enthusiasm he made the announcement that Sarah’s water broke in Texas. Or, if Grandma and Grandpa were in on the deception, he may have been adding his own embellishment to make it more realistic. If Grandpa Heath had not made the announcement about the water breaking, then Sarah would not have had to quickly make up her stupid explanation which (I can’t help it) never held water. Audrey, if you had not heard the story about the water breaking in Texas followed by the two flights back to Alaska, would you have had any reason to question Trig’s birth?
It is obvious that Sarah intended to keep little Piper from knowing about her sister’s pregnancy, but then Sarah thought of a plan in which she could solve all the issues, as well as use it to her political advantage. But this plan did not start until mid-February 2008, AFTER Trig was born. She could keep Trig hidden either in a NICU, or with a family member or private nurse and Sarah set upon her plan to fake a pregnancy, wearing those bizarre long scarves. Then comes the moment of final commitment – John McCain gets the nomination as Republican presidential candidate on 3-4-08. The very next day, Sarah makes the astonishing announcement she is 7 months pregnant, due in mid-May. Everyone is amazed, but congratulate her! Ok, so that worked! But her political ambitions superceded everything else – she just HAD to give that speech in Texas, so Trig’s “birth” would have to wait until after she made her speech. Then she could have a “premature birth” and not have to bother with those stupid scarves and square pillow for another month.
I and many others were weighed down for some time with little tidbits of misinformation like:
1) the info from CBJ’s letter about going home after 2 days, and Sarah takes Trig to the office on 4-21-08, implying he was 3 days old at the time;
2) Sarah stating after Trig’s “birth” on 4-18-08 that she learned on 12-4-07 after testing that Trig had DS. (Her inconsistent story about the amniocentesis testing was like asking her 4 times what are the duties of the VP, and she still kept getting it wrong!) She should have googled “amniocentesis” before she used that as the basis for learning Trig had DS.
3) Since we are not privy to a birth certificate, are we also to believe that Trig weighed 6lbs 2oz at birth? Since Bristol was only 16 at the time she became pregnant, and probably hid her pregnancy from her parents for the first 3-4 months, she most likely did not have the benefit of prenatal vitamins and nutrients. Trig would very likely have low birth weight. I do not give any credibility to the stated birth weight of 6lbs 2oz.
I never watch this show, Desperate Housewives, I guess because there is something else I usually watch. I have heard other people mention the fake pregnancy in this show but I never paid much attention. I was just now looking through Patrick’s flicker site and came upon this. It made me laugh and OMG at the same time! The baby was named Benjamin VAN de Kamp-Hodge. So is that where the Trig Paxson VAN Palin came from??? As a little inside joke? Oh Sarah, you are so clever and funny, just not original!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bree_Hodge#Season_Four
From Desperate Housewives:
“In season four, Bree Hodge and Orson struggle to keep her fake pregnancy a secret. They also struggle to convince Danielle to let Bree Hodge adopt the child. Phyllis, Rex’s mother, discovers Bree’s pregnancy to be a hoax and tries to convince Danielle to raise the child herself to spite Bree. In the end, Danielle gives birth to a boy named Benjamin Van De Kamp-Hodge (Surname:Katz) and allows Bree and Orson to raise him as their own.”
Punkinbugg,
I found this on Pantagraph.com in a news report about Palin-kid-travel-gate. The state jet she traveled on sometimes was assigned to the public safety agency, i.e., DPS. Maybe your A/C is AirCraft?
"The Palins began charging the state for commercial flights after the governor kept a 2006 campaign promise to sell a jet bought by her predecessor. . . . That left only one high-performance aircraft deemed safe enough for her to use - a 1980 twin-engine King Air assigned to the public safety agency but, according to flight logs, out of service for maintenance and repairs about a third of the time Palin has been governor."
Re: PD. Thx Morgan -- I looked it up on web and thought it was "Parkinson's Disease." Whew.
Dangerous said,
"It seems the late-Tripp camp of the Bristol Mom x 2 has folded."
Not at all. I'd say it's a near certainty he was born significantly later than Dec 27th. You know, I think I have consistently put forth substantial objections to some of your points, which have rarely been answered.
It is not believable that they would hide Tripp for 7 weeks when they had their whole story and credibility riding on the accuracy of Bristol being "about 5 months pregnant" on Sept 1. An entire spread in People about baby Tripp with not one picture. All the while Sarah looking stressed and doing that silly, damage control interview, in which she berates the media for not correcting rumors. And suddenly they pick THAT time to become camera shy?
If the Willow theory proves right, the Palin family will have had two teenage girls pregnant within a year of each other.
Lady Rose--
I agree that Willow does not appear, emotionally, to have been through anything significant, but if she is the mother she has disconnected herself from Trig and surely never breastfed. Therefore, at the convention, she would not necessarily physically show evidence of having given birth.
Karen- yes, it is time to put to rest the notion that the DS diagnosis ended plans for adoption. It has been pointed out more than once that, surprisingly, there are waiting lists for adopting DS babies.
I personally doubt adoption was ever in the cards. It just doesn't seem like the Palin family style, and Bristol, from what I can see, would not want to do that. Giving up a baby for adoption is very wrenching and Bristol loves her babies.
I think the reason for the faking was simply McCain's nomination.
It is true, as Dangerous says, that for Bristol to be mom X2 Trig has to be born about a month earlier than stated, so the theory requires more speculation. However, a long NICU stay is still not necessary. It simply could be that Trig was born 4-5 weeks early as stated, at a reasonable birth weight, but that they are lying about the month in which it happened, to give Sarah time to fake the pregnancy, with a planned "early" birth in mid April included in the package. Trig might have weighed about 5 pounds in mid March, and come up to 6 or 7 lbs in mid April when they showed him. He was born in March, due in April, and never due in May, which was added to plump up the pregnancy faking for Sarah.
As to why she would leave to go to Texas, it was because that particular trip was very important for her. She needed to get out to the lower 48 more often and create a track record of involvement. The wild ride story got a little out of hand.
But I have to admit that last is a bit weak. Why in the hell didn't she just shut up, and go home, and say she had the baby during the night after she got back?rueerse
Midnight Cajun-
I found your theory very plausible - Bristol was willing to consider a private adoption if she knew where he was going, and/or simply balked once he was born.
But let me reiterate that we need not have an extremely premature baby just because he was born in March or even February. We just have to realize that the true due date has not been given.
I have bought a copy of "Trailblazer" by Lorenzo Benet, and it's a fascinating read. Benet managed to make Sarah's life look like a pleasant fairy-tale (including the pregnancy with Trig, of course). The book is a love-letter to Sarah Palin. Benet has apparently no interest to write about facts which could damage the carefully crafted image. Just at some points he mentions a few critical things (SP lied about the "Bridge to Nowhere" because she supported the project in the beginning, she didn't sell the jet on ebay etc. - REALLY??? I had NEVER heard of this before).
But needless to say that he doesn't mention anywhere that there was a controversy surrounding the Trig pregnancy. In Lorenzo Benet's world, there were no Bristol pregnancy rumours (the existence of which SP confirmed herself in early 2008!), and he doesn't mention that SP didn't look pregnant at all until the beginning of April 2008. When he discusses the "wild ride", he purposefully omits that the Alaska Airline stuff didn't notice that SP was pregnant, which is on the record - he just reports: "But Sarah showed no signs of distress on the Alaska Airlines flight, an airline spokesman said." (p. 186)
But there are a few things in the book which are useful for us. Here is the first useful bit - that's what he writes after SP apparently was told that Trig had Down Syndrome - about the consequences of having Down Syndrome:
"Some children cannot speak until age four, and half of the infants are born with a hole in the heart, as was the case with Trig. If the holes don't close, surgery is often required (Trig, fortunately, avoided surgery). Thyroid, intestinal, and vision problems also require treatment. Families are frequently in for a long haul of specialized speech, physical and occupational therapy." (p. 181)
So Trig had a hole in his heart??? And SP wants to tell us that he was released from hospital the 2 days later, and then she took him to work, where he was exposed to all kind of infections? Does ANYBODY buy that? Because I don't! When was Trig diagnosed anyway? When was he treated (not necessarily with surgery)?
Here is an interesting link with lots of more information about congenital heart defects:
http://tinyurl.com/aot8rx
Here is what Wikipedia says about the treatment:
"Sometimes CHD improves with no treatment necessary. At other times the defect is so small and does not require any treatment. Most of the time CHD is serious and requires surgery and/or medications. Medications include diuretics, which aid the baby in eliminating water, salts, and digoxin and in strengthening the contraction of the heart. This slows the heartbeat and removes some fluid from tissues."
http://tinyurl.com/bhcp3u
So the baby of the Governor of Alaska received no treatment? Are we really supposed to believe that?
Holes in the heart in newborns can have very serious consequences - from a medical website:
"Some congenital heart defects (such as a hole in the atrium [patent foramen ovale]) increase the risk that a blood clot will form and block an artery in the brain, leading to a stroke."
http://tinyurl.com/c3yue6
From the same website:
"Diagnosing heart defects in children involves the same techniques used for diagnosing heart problems in adults (see Symptoms and Diagnosis of Heart and Blood Vessel Disorders: Introduction). A doctor may be able to diagnose the defect after asking the family specific questions and performing a physical examination, electrocardiography (ECG), and a chest x-ray. Ultrasound (echocardiography) is used to diagnose almost all of the specific defects. Cardiac catheterization often can show small abnormalities that are not detected with echocardiography or can further illuminate the details of the abnormality."
So I ask the following question: Who was relevant heart/cardiac specialist in the local Mat-Su Medical Center in Palmer, where Trig was allegedly born? Who made the decision that Trig was allowed to go home 2 days after birth?
Cathy Baldwin-Johnson is a family doctor - that was not her department!
Patrick (PD research)
I've stayed quiet for a while, just reading the ever expanding theories and complicated timelines. It's all become a bit much for me. I guess there are too many coded phrases like "2x" whatever or "Late Trig" vs. "Early Trig." I guess I'm more casual reader than Palin scholar. But, through it all, I just know that any great work is messy. And to get at great ideas, the work (and theories) must be unfettered, as they are in any laboratory.
AND then, one person will say something that goes BINGO in my brain.
Yesterday the BINGO moment was someone writing that Piper would have had to have been protected from whatever scheme was perpetrated. But of course! I had never thought clearly about that.
You can only lie so much to a 6 year old. A pregnant Bristol around the house would have been impossible to explain away. And Piper does go to school, at least a few days a month. Children talk at school. Piper stayed close to Sarah, someone else wrote, another BINGO moment.
So there's a "fact," in my opinion. Now, for me, that rules out a home birth for Trig-- and really any other scenario than that Bristol was shipped off to someone who could be trusted, to wait out her delivery of Trig, in a big anonymous hospital.
Other "facts" I still hold on to are the photos of Levi and Bristol with Trig at the RNC, displaying absolute affection.
The "fact" that Sarah is ambitious and puts her political future above everything. Therefore, yes, I can see that she would dare lie about a pregnancy, or schedule the fake birth around her appearance at an important Republican event.
But I can't imagine Sarah blithely living her life "pregnant" for too many weeks after Trig was already born. That just leaves too much to chance. Too many people (at hospital, for instance) exposed to his existence while she parades around pregnant is insane. I believe the more plausible explanation is that Trig came early, and she had to hurry her "pregnancy" along to fit his birth.
So the simple scenario is thus: Bristol tells parents she's pregnant right around the time that the Repubs are sniffing seriously at Sarah. To punish Bristol and save her political career, Sarah hatches the pregnancy scheme (not realizing she's basing it on plagerism-- from watching her favorite TV show). Bristol's sent off to live wth Sarah's sister. The charade commences.
Bristol delivers early, and suddenly Sarah must revise the plan: scrambling to look more pregnant and fitting in the Dallas conference. She rushes home to "give birth" and casually mentions a "wild ride" home to her dad, not realizing that the casual lie will explode into the media. She has to go to Wasilla, because that's where CBJ is going to help her fake the birth (THAT couldn't be done at a big city hospital!) Bristol is there to pass over the baby, and the charade is complete.
One last "fact" for me. Teenage girls, when controlled by their strong mothers, rebel in subconscious ways. Bingo, Bristol gets pregnant almost immediately.
So all the birth dates have become slide-able, because no formal news conferences were held (as they would have been in any more normal US state). Sarah, like any liar or conartist, has an allergy to absolute facts like dates.
This has been my theory since last fall, when I started reading this blog-- and funny thing-- nothing has changed my mind since.
But I keep reading! And listening! And hoping, for new facts, theories, ideas. So keep'em coming.
Here's my favorite "fact" about Sarah Palin:
What kind of woman has ALL these things happen to her within a year? Rumors of son's vandalism of public property. Rumors of teenage daughter's wild partying. Rumors of teenage daughter's pregnancy. Teenage daughter is pregnant. Suspicious fire at her church. Friend and mother of daughter's purported baby-daddy arrested for selling oxycotin (not even marijuana or cocaine!). Photos vanish from official website. Few official photos are dated verifiably. No official news conference to announce a very public birth to someone in elected office. Rumors of photoshopped photos. Public discourse (including personal emails) with major newspaper about rumors.
Not even a Kennedy has had a year like that. (Or even the Queen of England who had her own Annus Horribilis). Or a movie star. Or for that matter, anyone I know.
That is, for me, the biggest "fact" of Sarah Palin. It means that a pregnancy charade is perfectly plausible. It also means that her VP vetting was done by men who ony saw what they wanted to; not what was there.
This may not move any argument forward. But the simple facts of Palin's 2008 year are enough to keep me reading this blog, hoping for more.
Sorry-- just one more post. I remembered another BINGO moment yesterday.
A pregnant governor trumps rumors of her pregnant daughter. YES! (Thank you, whoever expounded that!)
That's why Bristol's baby couldn't have been given up for adoption -- even if she'd been willing. Because the rumors would never have stopped AND you would then have to rely on the secrecy of the birth family. (an ever expanding circle of people who know the truth.)
THAT made the most sense to me of why Sarah dared the charade than anything I've heard before.
So, I lied. My pet theory has expanded and changed. This truly IS the People's Journalism at its finest. Keep it coming, Audrey, Morgan, Patrick, Diana, Tabloid Chick, Amy1 -- even you Dangerous One.
Audrey ~ Get well soon!
Morgan ~ Thank you for updating us!
To Everyone ~ Thank you for the total civility, insight and attention to detail!
From:
A Loyal Lurker
Notice from my inner voice: This following is my extremely humble opinion and speculation.
Is it possible that:
1) A beleaugered Bristol gave birth to Trigg in March, or so,
2) and he was secreted away in NCIU with various health issues;
3) Adoption plans are aborted*;
4) SP snaps fingers as the perfect plan comes to mind;
5) SP coordinated the wild ride** with Trigg's expected release from NCIU.
6) Trigg was transported from Anchorage (or whatever medical facility was caring for him), with Bristol along for the ride, to Wa-Mu where his family was picking him up and taking him home.
**The reason for the wild ride was because Sarah really really wanted to go to that scheduled governors' conference, and truly, because she was faking a pregnancy ~ she did not want to have to go to the event that evening that required her to wear a ball gown. In her mind, this probably all worked out perfectly. And she got to look like a tough, frontier woman.
If the above scenario was anywhere near what really happened, it would explain away so many inconsistancies in my mind. TP and SP and BP could have pulled this off with really very few people involved because of the way people never question her ~ even on the obvious.
I just saw something VERY interesting, another discrepancy. If you look at the very bottom of the page of Sarah's calendar for 2-14-08. It says:
8:15pm - 10:02pm GOV, Piper, Willow AK Flt., #67 LBOZIL(JNU/ANC *Boarding 7:45 p.m. Seats 25D, 25E, 25F)
11:55pm - 12:00 am GOV, Piper, Willow, Bristol LBOZIL/POKSCI(ANC/FBKS *Boarding 10:40 p.m. Sets 10D, 10E, 10F, 10C
However, according to the Travel Authorization for Willow, she Departed Juneau at 12:44pm Arrived Fairbanks 4:16pm
So who got on Flt #67 with Gov & Piper for Willow since Willow was already in Fairbanks at 4:16 that afternoon?
There is no refund for the ticket for Willow on Flt #67.
It also shows a rental car @ airport.
*****
Now at the top of the calendar for 2-16-08 is says:
Bristol: FBKS/ANC AK Flt., #140 FTMZGW (FBKS/ANC - *Boarding 6:40 p.m. # Seat 15F
Bristol’s Travel Authorization shows she Departed Fairbanks 7:10pm Arrived Anchorage 8:10pm.
The Tesoro Iron Dog Awards Banquet was from 6:00pm to 10:00pm on 2-16-08. Did Bristol drive herself to the airport, maybe took a cab or official driver for governor? I can’t imagine Sarah and Tod missing the awards banquet or even being late. Seems strange Bristol did not attend the banquet – methinks perhaps a family spat occurred on this trip? And by the following Friday, 2-22-08, Sarah begins wearing those scarves!!
The ticket for Piper for 2-17-08 was refunded (I am still having a really difficult time trying to find any justification or explanation why little Piper would drive with a friend on an almost 7 hour drive from Fairbanks to Anchorage on 2-17-08. And WHO is that friend? What was the weather like at that time and road conditions?)
But as I stated above, there is no refund for the ticket for Willow on Flt #67 for 2-14-08.
Tina, thanks for the kudos. They are much appreciated.
But the research team, moderators and everyone else who works on this blog would be NOTHING without the thoughtful readers who contribute their time so generously to help us towards our mutual goal of unraveling this ongoing story.
So welcome, Tina! You are among good company here and it's nice to see you join us.
To ProChoiceGrandma,
When I said I believe he went home on day two I really should have said that I believe it is absolutely possible that he did, and that I see no reason to ASSUME that he didn't or couldn't because of health reasons.
I give ZERO credence to CBJ's letter - but I don't see the point in insisting that he could not have gone home or that he must have been in the NICU because of xyz...
Sorry I wasn't clear.
I would like to point out that Gryphen from "Immoral Minority" has written an excellent blog about the contradictions and other odd details which are mentioned in Lorenzo Benet's "Trailblazer" regarding Trig's birth story. As always, Gryphen hits the nail on the head:
http://tinyurl.com/dmgn5j
Gryphen, if you read this, I always love your posts on "Immoral Minority" and we are very lucky that you care for SP's birth story. Thanks for your efforts, keep up the great work!
Patrick (PD research)
WELCOME
and thanks,
TINA NELSON for your outline:
a very SIMPLE & persuasive explanation: it neatly ties the loose ends and it matches SP's low skill for strategyzing.
i--for one--am doubtful that she is capable of concocting the very complex scenarios we have imagined here.
Alex, thanks for your post at 7:59 am. It really made me chuckle. Might I add one more thing to your list? 11-4-08 Sarah single-handedly caused the GOP to lose dramatically! Ever hear the song “Bad Day” by Daniel Powter? I have been humming that tune since I read your post. I think you should write a song and use your post as the lyrics!
Oh, and my word verification is talenc. Ha!
kudos to you, too, ALEX.
a GREAT TRIPLE post!
it seems that we've exhausted all the permutations of the hoax in order to arrive back to the very same place: its SIMPLICITY rules.
Patric said;
[quote]she didn't sell the jet on ebay etc. - REALLY??? I had NEVER heard of this before).[/quote]
You see this is where Sarah Palin is a genus at deception. Never once will you hear her say the actual words, "I sold the jet on eBay." Just like we never will hear the words, "I gave birth to Trigg on ____date. Dr________was in attendance."
She DID put the jet on eBay for sale. BUT it was removed before selling it. AND she sold it to a private buyer at a LOSS for the state of Alaska.
She will let the listener fill in the gap in their own mind by saying, "And then you know what I did? I put that jet on eBay!" The mind likes to connect dots. So naturally people make the leap in their mind of "She listed it on eBay, therefor it sold on eBay...."
But that is NOT what she said!
Once you learn that, then look at the baby-gate with new eyes. You can see it is not hard for her to leave out those pesky details that would make your normal person jump to another opposite conclusion.
As Paul Harvey would say, "And now......for the rest of the story." It has become our job to give the rest of the story to those that filled in the blanks wrongly.
The ideas on Piper's witness to this should be folded into the time lines. During the spring of 2008, Piper was going to school in Juneau. If Bristol was pregnant, Piper would not have seen Bristol in Wasilla -- except on weekends. So, it was best to have Bristol in Anchorage most of the time.
The only time we would have Bristol and Piper together would be on the trip to Fairbanks. If Bristol was still pregnant, certainly Piper would notice how "fat" she had become during the separation.
How does this fit?
Ever since watching Bristol with Van Suckup, I've fond myself pondering that young woman. I think in many ways she's very much her mother's daughter, joking about sending moose meat to the people donating to save the wolves, and certainly very anti-abortion, and obviously not adverse to lying to hundreds of millions of people. I think Sarah set up the GVS interview, and Bristol was more than willing to play along.
But that does not mean she's her mother's patsy. She took a lot of flack for her "abstinence doesn't work" statement. I can definitely see a scenario where Bristol refused her mother's pressure to give up the child for adoption. I can also see a scenario where Bristol, who had planned to keep the child after birth, realized she could not cope financially with a DS child. At that point she was vulnerable to her mother's pressure: "I will adopt the child and cover him with my insurance, but you must agree to let me pretend he's mine."
Ponder this odd fact about Sarah and her kids: she sent her two oldest children off to live someplace else while they were still in high school. It's obviously her way of dealing with recalcitrant children who get into trouble.
Ivyfree: She could have said, as you point out, "We have decided to adopt a Down Syndrome baby, whose mother has chosen to remain anonymous. Please respect her privacy." Problem solved. So... why the lies?"
Why didn't she? Because she didn't think of it. Just like when Katie Couric asked what she reads (such a typical qu for a candidate!), she could easily have said something sensible -- it didn't have to be true. Oh, good -- I see that ProChoiceGrandma has come to the same conclusion, only explains it better.
Tully -- DS babies may be v adoptable, but I bet you have to fill out a lot of paperwork -- disclosures. JillyG: correct? I bet SP had greased the skids for whatever plan she had in mind, but I also bet it would be hard to change course in the middle, to allow for lots of forms, info, agencies, snoopy home visits, social workers, etc. Also, someone suggested that we didn't know Trig's name (because no BC so far), and it makes a lot of sense to me that a fake BC would make hospital stays and medical attn very unremarkable and easy to conceal.
NY Tabloid Chick: Don't you consider the photo sequence proof? I'm not clear on what the definition of "proof" is. But photos from unimpeachable sources seem as good as an eye-witness -- better, in some ways.
Also, I think what we know so far supports the idea that SP DID go v low profile on the flight that was later called the wild ride (geez, "the entertainer formerly known as 'Prince' -- did people always talk like this, or have we all caught some virus from outer space. Pass me the tin-foil hat, pls.) So low profile that no eye-witnesses have commented on it, on her preg size during the flight, on whether she seemed in any kind of distress, on anything about it. And no HIPPA restriction there, and no fear of the Hitler of Wasilla by people on that flight who live elsewhere, perhaps even in the lower 48.
Onething -- as for WHY she had to go to TX -- it was a big-deal speech! It seems obvious (in retrospect) that there was going to be some gimmick like the raising of hands to see who would not refuse the VP call. Just more exposure, too, sure -- but this was a key event, in terms of timing. Remember that it was said at the time that the VP pick was undecided then, so SP had to give it her all if she wanted it. To me it makes perfect sense that she went to TX.
With apologies to JillyG, who said one might go home in 2 days with a DS baby who had a heart condition: I can see how that could be true in your case JillyG, but not in some large % of other cases. Just the sheer volume of possibilities and testing and talking it over makes me think it is likely to take more than 2 days for some cases. So I'm with you re this surprising revelation in the Trailblazer book. If nothing else, that condition ads to the sense of fragility and risk a normal Mom would feel re her newborn, which was one of my red flags re SP at the time. With my babies, I was so freaked out by people wanting to bring their nose-picking, coughing, germ-radiating pestilential little children over to see and touch and HOLD! my babies -- I just said NO. I've never been one to worry about germy doorknobs, etc., but the preciousness and fragility of my healthy babies brought it all out in me. So: major red flag, made worse by whatever complications Trig had, even if they were minimal.
Yup: Welcome, Tina Nelson!
I must say once again that so many people, looking at this story so carefully, have really brought out the most absurd and the weakest elements of "Palin's Deception."
First, to Truthseeker2, I want you to know that as early as October I wrote to the American Association of Family Practioners (who awarded CBJ their most prestigious recognition) asking them to look into CBJ's public statements with regard to Palin's birth story. I never got any reply--so much for that organization! But I may try again.
To Amy1--your posts are so informative!--but no, as far as I know, there is no Andrea Gusty interview from the Go Red women event; it was just my sarcasm coming out.... (but I wouldn't be surprised....)
ProChoiceGrandma--you are so right about Piper. I also feel that Bristol may not have been with Heather Bruce all that time (this aunt has three children, and Lauden is the oldest--the other two, who are like 12/13, would be risky with a pregnant cousin around). I think the plot was a bit more elaborate. I am even thinking that the Wasilla High School, the Anchorage High School, and the Juneau High School were not sure where Bristol was--they each may have thought she was at the other highschool, which would prevent some of the gossip (as they didn't realize she was not in any school). She was 16-17, remember, and in some states a child can be taken out of school for home schooling, and the state does not even check.
Noticing the inconsistencies in the travel reports and Palin's schedule with regard to the Feb. 2008 Fairbanks trip is great! I am starting to think that this is the first bit of the story to crumble to bits.
It is nice to hear from Alex again--you are right about some of the "Bingo" moments.
I am very grateful to Lorenzo Benet. Why is that? Although his biography of Sarah Palin is written in the style of a children's book and makes you feel that everything around SP is good and beautiful, it has its merits.
For the example our old Christmas picture:
Thanks to the amazing Diana, we had already found out that the Christmas picture which was published in the authorised biography of SP by Kaylene Johnson, credited as taken in "December 2007", was in fact taken in December 2006. This book by Kaylene Johnson (the "authorised" biography!) is, by the way, just an annoying, crappy piece of propaganda - at least Lorenzo Benet TRIES).
But now "Trailblazer" by Lorenzo Benet finally clears the confusion. He posts this this picture:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ddhtqx
...which was taken at the same day as the picture in the book by Kaylene Johnson...
http://tinyurl.com/cxljrj
...and the caption this time is correct. These pictures were indeed taken in December 2006 and not 2007!
Thanks, Lorenzo! It's a pity that you will have to rewrite your funny biography in the end.
By the way: The complete documentation regarding these Christmas pictures is here:
http://tinyurl.com/aaaa2o
Patrick (PD research)
oops, I forgot to add:
I have mulled the "wild ride" for a long time--at one point even worrying that a minor teenager went into early labor with both parents thousands of miles away. But I have started to revise that. The biggest clue to me that the whole thing was staged is the timing--it is right after the Legislative Session was over. The Texas trip was too good to refuse, so she attended that, and then "snuck" back into Alaska--perhaps having already booked the flight! Alaska woke up to the Governor and a brand new baby. (Sorry, has anyone checked Todd's travel records for this trip?)
Even though she still "worked"--signing a bill the same day she gave "birth" (what does Parnell do?)--Palin didn't have to be in the legislature again until *her* special session. So, she avoided any concerns anyone may have had about a 44-year-old woman giving birth and perhaps needing maternity leave. What if her due date had been in the midst of the session? You can't fake breastfeeding in front of so many people.
Thanks Prochoicegrandma, also, for the update on the Desperate Housewives/"Van" Palin connection--I may just have to start watching the show to find out how this Palin saga ends!
Hi Prochoicegramma!
What is the link to your airline ticket report that mentions "GOV" travel?
I have been through the girls' report, but I have not seen a flight report for the GOV.
Good catch on the flight discrepancies.
Bristol leaving before the INDOOR, PARKA-FREE Iron Dog banquet, combined with Piper driving *that far* with some mystery person back to JNU, just stinks to high heaven.
Oh and thank you "B" for the DPS A/C discovery. "DPS" is what we call our highway patrol here in Texas, too -- And I didn't want to assume without proof!
Just a point of information, Diana, in case no one else has noted it:
The first time you mention Sarah Palin's birth date in the time line for February 11, 2007, you accidentally typed the year date as 2008.
----------
I was just reading the Wikipedia entry for "Desperate Housewives" Bree Van de Camp Hodge, which starts off with a "bio". Have any of you read it? Wow! Does life imitate art, or what? :)
"Bree is recognized for her perfectionist attitude and work ethic, which at times borders on neurosis and obsessive compulsion. While the writers have shied away from officially diagnosing the character as suffering from obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, the character herself refers to her “quirks” in terms of anal retentiveness and not obsessive-compulsiveness.
Bree is known for her cooking, cleaning, ironing, gardening, doing her lawn, and reupholstering her own furniture, on the level of Martha Stewart.
She is also known for making gourmet meals and breakfast treats, including her pineapple bran muffins. Besides being a dedicated homemaker, she also is well-versed in regards to firearm training: she owns four guns and is a card-carrying member of the National Rifle Association.".
NY Tabloid chick replied:
***The circumstantial evidence, and SP's decisions during that time, do not support Trig already being born.***
Not sure what circumstantial evidence supports Trigg being UNborn at that time. The only evidence we have of Trigg's birthdate is SP's statement. That's it. And if this were a court case, we'd be instructed that if we find the defendant to lack credibility, we are entitled to dismiss any or all of her testimony.
I agree we can dismiss SP's testimony in whole or part. The circumstances I'm referring to is the faking itself. I cannot see any rational reason for SP to fake a pregnancy when the child had already been born. If they planned to keep it, they could say they are adopting an abandoned child. Since the child is born, and nobody who is going to reveal the secret knows about it, why fake a pregnancy to cover-up a fait accomplit?
They could still put the child up for adoption, if he recovers from his speculated time in NICU. The only rational reason to fake a pregnancy is if you intend to disguise the source of an infant you are planning to keep. Period. Once Bristol is no longer pregnant and nobody knows she's given birth, there is zero, ZERO, reason to risk detection of a faked pregnancy.
That's the circumstantial evidence that blows a hole in the Bristol x 2, Trig born in Feb scenario.
If you want to attribute an irrational scenario for SP faking, you have to explain why her family and the doctor, and all the nurses in Trig's NICU, would go along.
It is true that some jurors would accept the evidence as is and conclude SP faked the pregnancy, in the absence of direct evidence that some other woman is Trig's mother. But it would never be unanimous, assuming a judge would let it go to a jury, which he probably wouldn't with that much reasonable doubt.
Also, by 'conjecture' I mean comments such as "Bristol looked" this way toward Trig as support for a theory. When prosecuting a case, one can speculate on some things, but can't assume facts not in evidence. Speculation is fine, but we all have to be careful that the speculation doesn't create contradictions in our own arguments.
I *speculate* that Willow may not have attended school in early 2008.
I *speculate* that they may have hid Bristol to deflect attention from Willow.
I *speculate* that Willow may have been better able to disguise a pregnancy for longer since casual observers are not expecting a 14-year-old to look pregnant.
None of those speculations run counter to the evidence, either direct or circumstantial. If Willow is Trig's mother, why would the ruse only fall on SP and not Bristol?
It is fair *speculation* that SP waited to start faking so she wouldn't have to do it as long. I think that's dumb, since her late announcement raised lots of eyebrows. But she might have.
It's conjecture to assume motives that a rational person wouldn't have, then assert that SP is also coldly calculating. People aren't selectively rational and irrational on something as huge as a faked pregnancy.
I could go through these logical arguments all night and for months longer. I appreciate the responses to my posts. At least I know someone is paying attention. I just want to see some direct evidence that Bristol is Trig's mother, because the circumstantial evidence (Exhibit #1: Tripp) doesn't support it any longer. You might still have a viable theory if you had some direct evidence of earlier birth for Trig. But without a rational motive to fake a pregnancy on an unrevealed living child (rather than just adopting), it is illogical to suggest Trig was born in February.
Dangerous
I had trouble downloading the 2nd of Patrick's 3 boxnet links (from his March 5, 10:39 post), though I had no trouble with the 1st and 3rd. Let it go for an hour and then finally cancelled it. Did anyone else have trouble with this?
***************
Amy1, why do you think there is a dark story behind who Trig's father is? Why do you think it isn't Levi? Do we know if Bristol had a different boyfriend in the summer of 2007?
***************
Regarding the doctor's point-blank refusal to confirm whether she'd delivered Trig, let's not forget HIPPA! This federal law states that medical professionals cannot disclose medical info without the patient's consent. I believe that she and Sarah (and Trig's birth mother) have agreed as to what CBJ can and cannot disclose to the public in case of Trig-related interviews like this. Obviously it's pretty fishy that she is forbidden by the Palins from answering this basic question. Someone could tie Trig's alleged birth date to CBJ's schedule (vacation in Florida that week? In another clinic that day?) and possibly find a conflict, leading us pajama-clad, tin-foil-hat-wearing bloggers to conclude that Trig's alleged birth date is a lie.
I was just perusing Diana's Palin Family travel timeline, wondering when Sarah Palin went to Los Angeles, since it's been mentioned several times in our comments that she'd traveled to LA and Texas in her "late pregnancy". I found one date -- March 3, 2008 -- but was it a one-day stay?
I was curious as to how long she was in LA, and wondering if she was somewhere else, or at Universal Studios for the Newsweek Women in Leadership Conference Event
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/08/29/breslau-palin-on-clinton.aspx
Universal Studios is where "Desperate Housewives" is filmed. I can see Sarah Palin looking at some of the props for the Bree character then, and taking mental notes about one prop in particular...
(ha, ha, my word verification is "klegate")
Hello, moderators and pyjama sleuths! How is everyone?
Hope you're feeling better, Audrey :)
I have been absent with a downed computer :( checking in occasionally and read what I can. The discussion is just as riveting as ever. I am so glad to see that the evidence or lack of is taking even greater, more concrete form.
I will try to make a few brief points.
First, I hope everyone moderating will pat themselves on the back for keeping discussions on topic and for amassing such incredible info, and maintaining an outstanding blog. Much credit is deserved for your hard work! Hopefully you'll get it when this thing is finally proven and put to rest. I have a few favourite contributors, but find every post to have relevance. This is indeed a court of public opinion, and you're a very insightful and critical bunch. Thank you all for your informative posts.
_________________
The media is out of control, so why are they ignoring this? Every detail of Nadya Suleman's ("Octomom") life and behaviour has been completely *over*exposed.
I wonder if the world will delve with that same ruthlessness into SP's business, once something very fishy (or, fishier than pulled photos, threatening emails, church fires, forged/faked letters...) is brought to light.
"Coming soon"... I am so intrigued.
________________
Count me in Camp earlier Trig/later Tripp. Possibly Trig was a Valentine baby, Feb. 08? Or did Bristol fly that day... there is so much more detail here about the family travel. At any rate I am leaning towards mid-Feb. as a possible Trig birthdate. I think Bristol became pregnant with Tripp around May '08. Which means he was probably born in January '09. The dates were fudged just enough in all directions, is my theory.
_________________
I think both births were a result of plain old teenage irresponsibility, mostly due to not being properly educated about birth control and therefore not having ready access to it. The lesson would not have been for Bristol to use condoms after Trig - it would have been to not have sex, which we know Bristol feels is "unrealistic". This wasn't a lesson for Bristol - this was for Sarah, that Bristol thought her backward way of thinking was unrealistic. She'd get to keep Tripp and be proud, and show her mother that not only was she determined now to have a choice of her own, but that Sarah's stance on sex education was flawed, and now she too was forced to live with the results.
Bristol seems like a fairly regular girl who gets the hypocrisy of it all, based on her GVS interview, but can't do much about anything. Such a shame.
That's my ten cents for now. Great posts, everybody, keep 'em coming!
Hey Dangerous you might like this comment! I read all the comments every day and it is my hope that the upcoming news is powerful and concrete; esp. if it involves Bristol it better be! I may be alone in my opinions but I just don’t believe that Bristol is the mother of Trig Palin! Audrey, only good thoughts go your way!
Mary G.,
I just got a copy of Joe Hilley's book, Sarah Palin: A New Kind of Leader. It came out after McCain picked her and before the election. The amnio story is a bit different:
"In December 2007, Governor Sarah Palin was four months pregnant. As a routine matter, her physician ordered an amniocentesis. . . . It is a test routinely ordered for women who become pregnant after the age of thirty-five. . . . When her physician called to give her the reults, Sarah knew from the tone of his voice that the results were serious."
So his version suggests that CBJ ordered the amnio and a male doctor did it and called Palin, all in December 2007. Maybe he doesn't know that you don't get results the day it is done (isn't it a 2 weeks or so wait?) so he assumed if she got results in December, that's when it was ordered and done. He also is wrong that it is routine, but I'm sure that was to placate the religious right, to whom the book was targeted.
I also "learned" from the book that Palin asked Murkowski to appoint her to his Senate seat back in 2002, but instead he appointed his daughter. Then Palin wanted to run against her in 2004, but she wouldn't do it without her family's approval and Track objected. He wanted to stay at Wasilla High (although in a couple of years he left Wasilla and his family to live in Michigan) and didn't want the attention the campaign would bring the family. (Bingo.)
So Palin has had her eyes on national politics much longer than I thought. I bet she would have asked to be appointed Senator this year if Stevens and won and resigned. And she may well run against Murkowski in 2010, even if she plans to run for Pres. in 2012.
JillyG said,
"I don't see the point in insisting that he could not have gone home [on day two] or that he must have been in the NICU"
I agree completely.
I'm under the impression that a preemie baby will be the size of a newborn when he reaches his due date. Trig is that size at the May 5 shower, suggesting an early February birth would mean he was at least 3 months premature.
Some have suggested that his due date was in March rather than May. It's possible, but then he would look older by shower time.
I don't find the Sept. 2007 photo convincing that Bristol was pregnant. Teen Bristol just had a rounded figure, as shown in the green sweater photo. She went to high school in Wasilla in the fall and didn't disappear (uh, transfer to Anchorage) till mid-year. If she was going to disappear rather than be openly pregnant, she'd need to do it sooner than 6 mos. along.
I still think Bristol had Trig and Tripp, Tripp was born a month later than announced, and Trig could have been born 4/18/8 -- or 4/17, or around the time of the Elan Frank video ("Todd, have you talked to Bristol?"), or in late March when Sarah is absent from Juneau for two weeks(?) and the Anchorage hospital suddenly stops announcing births for a year.
Eagerly awaiting more data . . .
I think too many people are assuming things that SP say are true. I don’t believe that she knew Trigg has DS before he was born. I don’t believe that she (or anyone) breastfed Trig. I believe the only “early” testing was the standard ultra-sound that is standard nowadays.
As a parent of a teenager, I find it really hard to believe that SP was going to force BP to give up the baby for adoption. The governor’s first grandchild being given away!!?? No way.
Here’s my timeline of events:
BP gets pregnant in summer, and hides it from her parents as long as possible. SP notices in December/January and ships BP off to Aunt Heather. Because of SP’s stance on abstinence and her following with the conservative right, it can’t be known that the governor’s daughter is an unwed teen. SP and the Dude decide that BP will have the baby and they will adopt it and raise the baby as their own.
SP starts to wear the pg belly and fake the pregnancy. Since SP is not showing much, they can’t use the “real” due date of April as SP’s due date, so they throw out a date in May, planning for the baby to be born “early”.
Well, the baby is early, earlier than they had planned. Trigg is born in late March, when SP disappears from the public view. However, SP continues wearing the belly and faking pregnancy until mid April and the wild ride.
Audrey said at one time that SP must have been in a hurry to get back to Mat-Su Hospital on the day of the Wild Ride. I don’t know why. If Trigg was already born, what was the rush? If he really was born that day, then why not release his birth certificate.
The only reason why Trigg’s birth certificate has not been released is because it will reveal his real birth date. As discussed before, the adoptive parents’ names will be on it, SP and the Dude.
Was Trigg going to be released from ICU on that day? Possibly. Then SP could claim he was just born and parade him around for pictures.
BP rebels and gets pregnant again in April. Tripp is born in January.
Thanks, Audrey, for this site and for everyone’s theories. Someday, the truth will prevail.
word verification... supieri... lol...
I keep thinking that somebody's claiming Tripp on their 2008 tax return... and if he wasn't born in 2008 (and I don't believe he was... I'm a believer in the Bristolx2 theory) that's income tax fraud. I wish there was some way to pursue this, as I think the IRS would be able to actually investigate if they thought fraud was committed.
First of all, I add my good wishes to Audrey, for a fast recovery.
And huge thanks and appreciation to
the Research Team and to Morgan for moderating and keeping things civil and on track here.
To me, the "2 for Bristol" theory makes more sense than anything else. One thing that keeps popping into my head, is the photo of her holding Trig and Levi kissing his head. That picture just screams out, that they are the parents.
Amy1: That link to the 'confession' is priceless!
Windy City Woman: my guess about Trig's dad being a dark story is supported by nothing: zero proof.
Just my sense of what happens with hard partying.
And my trying to answer the qu "why fake it?"
Plus the two v different reports on how it was to announce the pregnancy: the "harder than labor" (the Greta video) and the "ha ha I'm pg," with giggles reported all around (the Brit tab quoting Sherry).
But proof? none.
RE: Trigg (or Tripp's?) Dark Horse Daddy
Forgive the pun, but there were rumors last fall on the internet of (Trigg? or Tripp's?) daddy being a young black man who had been in Wasilla visiting his father (an oil field worker).
There was a video confession on the web. In it, the young man in question mispronounced Palin (he said Pallin) and then he sang a few songs dedicated to Bristol. He talked of partying with her and their one-night stand and that he wished her well.
I just assumed it was a ploy to get his music heard. (and very clever, too. he spoke convincingly about Wasilla partying which I thought very clever for a hip hopper.) Yet I was always surprised not to see it mentioned on here but just figured Audrey et al didn't want to promote rumors. But like everything else I listed in Sarah's Bad Year, who knows what can happen in this crazy saga?
Sorry that I can't remember the timeline and which pregnancy it was supposed to refer to.
(Thanks ProChoice Grandma, WayofPeace, and Mary G. Yep. I aint goin' away.)
(Welcome, Tina. Yep. My inner voice is screaming, too.)
Here is an answer to why would Sarah fake a pregnancy after Trig had already been secretly born (to Bristol) and not merely announce that she was courageously adopting a DS child.
Sarah is the governor of Alaska. Pregnancy & childbirth "happens."
However, if Sarah, while governor, announces she is "adopting" a DS child, the people of Alaska would rightfully question whether she was shirking her duty to be their full-time governor by taking on another full-time job while she was governor.
Of course, we still had the "Where's Sarah?" buttons, but that's showbiz (running for VP) which is not the same as working 2 real full-time jobs.
"In December 2007, Governor Sarah Palin was four months pregnant. As a routine matter, her physician ordered an amniocentesis. . . . It is a test routinely ordered for women who become pregnant after the age of thirty-five. . . . When her physician called to give her the reults, Sarah knew from the tone of his voice that the results were serious."
So his version suggests that CBJ ordered the amnio and a male doctor did it and called Palin, all in December 2007.
********
Note that "her physician ordered" is a gender free term. Perhaps "her physician" was a "he" all along. CBJ has always been more likely Bristol's doctor given her specialty. So when "he" called with the results. it could have been the same person, a "he."
It's easy to read something into a quote that is not there.
Bingo, LondonBridges!
I think you're right, and I always wondered why Sarah didn't just "adopt" Trig without the charade. Adopting would have seemed like Sarah wasn't fully focused on her real job.
But pregnancy happens. It sure indeedy does.
Makes me wonder who Sarah discussed this all with-- who was in on the hatched plan.
Re: identification for minors on airplane flights.
My 14-yr-old just flew home alone from his school, and he showed me a plain piece of paper the school gave him, printed with their letterhead and a photo of my son, saying he was a student there and giving my name and address. Nice for them to do that, and for him to have it, but just incredibly easy to fake in case I wanted to give him another identity. Like if I wanted to transfer a ticket from one minor to another.
To LondonBridges (see post at 3-8-09 at 6:50am)
Thank you! This is a BINGO moment! You have supplied THE answer to the one missing explanation of why no adoption. The political explanation, and with SP, there is always something political in her schemes. I never commented on the adoption issue because I always felt it was her extreme fundamentalist church position of “abstinence only” was the reason she covered for Bristol because it would look bad for her to have a pregnant teenage daughter. But you are so correct that she would have been crucified by Alaskans, and by the GOP, if she adopted a DS baby while governor and potential VP candidate. But giving “birth” to a DS baby is absolutely acceptable by all of her drooling wingnuts, religious and political.
To Amy1 (see post at 3-7-09 at 4:09 pm)
Amy1, where in the world did you find that article?? Wow! I skipped over it at first because you had one of those “here” things (that always makes me lose my place), but upon returning and reviewing some of the comments from yesterday, I looked at it. It is sooooo close.
Those of you who are travel records experts: Do we have the records for Sarah's flight from Texas to Alaska in April? If they were booked in advance, they would show that, plus the original flight schedule. Then all we'd need to do is compare them to the flight Sarah says she took home, landing in Anchorage about 10:30, and we'd know if she actually did change flights, or if she simply flew home as scheduled. Right? Or am I missing something?
Our resarch team has created a "Trig-Tripp comparison document" with pictures of the newborn Trig and the newborn Tripp, which can be downloaded here:
http://www.box.net/shared/16i3exvcte
It is interesting to note that the "larger" Tripp with an official birthweight of 7 lb 3.5 oz was in fact not larger at birth at all than Trig with an offical birthweight of 6 lb 2 oz.
Patrick (PD research)
Mary G (at 3-7-09 at 4:07pm) and MidnightCajun (at 3-7-09 at 2:22pm) got me to thinking …
Mary G said: She was 16-17, remember, and in some states a child can be taken out of school for home schooling, and the state does not even check.
MidnightCajun said: Ponder this odd fact about Sarah and her kids: she sent her two oldest children off to live someplace else while they were still in high school. It's obviously her way of dealing with recalcitrant children who get into trouble.
***********
Sarah does to her disobedient children much like she governs, dontcha’ think? But where would you send a pregnant disobedient child to ponder her bad behavior. Hmmm, something related to her church I would venture. Now my senses are tingling again about that visit where SP took Bristol to the Juneau HUD Christian Teen Center back on 10-5-07. I read quite a lot about their connections with extreme religious views, quite scary to me. Just to be clear, I don’t mean to bash anyone’s religious views, but I am a very strong proponent of separation of church and state. Sarah’s Assembly of God and Joel’s Army are very much of the belief that only their believers should be in control of the government. I might never have gotten interested in this subject of Sarah Palin if my hair had not caught fire over the Pastor Muthee video and subsequent research.
I saw on the financial disclosure that the Palins own 2 other properties. Do these properties have houses, and are they located far enough away from other properties, where Bristol could be “kept” by church volunteer babysitters and no chance to be seen by outsiders? I would think it would have to be close enough where Aunt Heather could check in on her, and for SP and TP to visit while in the Anchorage/Wasilla area. This way Bristol could be home-schooled and do her penance while she is ostracized. And most importantly, unseen by anyone outside the circle.
By the way, Bristol’s condition could easily have remained unnoticed at school probably until she was 7 months (mid December). Especially in winter months. Just look at the big sweatshirt she wore in the pictures with Mercedes. I speak from experience. Enough said. Unfortunately for Sarah, she could not use the same dress code as a 16 year old, so she had to resort to scarves to disguise her fake pregnancy.
It is laughable to see how GVS spoonfeeds Bristol and SP, and yet SP can't resist ad libbing a scooch, not good!
SARAH PALIN: We were all surprised. Let me put it this way. And this is -- I think Bristol's kind of an example of, truly, it can happen to anybody. Bristol, great athlete, great student, great aspirations that she had for herself, plans that didn't include a baby, of course, but it did happen to her and now again, less than ideal circumstances, but we make the most of it. She, I think, of all of her friends even, can handle it perhaps better than some of for friends would have handled it. But still an absolute shock that it happened.
"..but it happen to her and now again..."
AND NOW AGAIN?????????????
penny
Mary G from our Palin Deception research team has discovered a piece of information which I consider to be a bombshell.
Back in the beginning of September 2008, right after the announcement that Bristol was pregnant and that Levi Johnston was the father, Journalists tried to get more information about it.
The ADN published an article on 2nd September 2008 with the headline “Both campaigns call pregnancy a private matter”. Here is the link:
http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/513141.html
In this article, it says:
“The announcement, which included the father's first name but no other information, triggered a frenzy from news media from across the country hunting down young Alaskans named Levi in a scramble to determine the father's identity.
In Wasilla, it is widely known that Palin's daughter has dated Levi Johnston, an 18-year-old Wasilla High School hockey player.
A family friend answered the door Monday at the Johnston home, outside Wasilla. When a reporter mentioned Bristol Palin, the friend, Anna Arodzero, said, 'You can contact the McCain-Palin headquarters.'
The campaign is providing no more details about the father. Palin, 44, wasn't available for interviews on Monday.”
(end of citation)
So the ADN wrote that a woman called “Anna Arodzero” answered the door at the house of the Johnstons, and supposedly she was a “friend”. And she told reporters that they “should contact the McCain-Palin headquarters” (which were then not available for a comment).
But who exactly was “the friend” Anna Arodzero? Nobody had asked this question before, until Mary G from our team discovered some explosive information.
Anna Arodzero is in fact an associate at the top-notch Public Relations/Lobbying firm “Gallatin Public Affairs”, which seems to have strong ties to Republicans.
Here is the website of Gallatin Public Affairs where “the team” is being presented:
http://www.gallatinpublicaffairs.com/team
Here is Anna’s personal profile:
http://tinyurl.com/bdzzyl
Here is her facebook page – it comes as no surprise that her favourite politician is John McCain:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Anna-Arodzero/1044868104
But that’s not everything.
Anna Arodzero was in fact working for the McCain campaign.
Yes, you have heard right!
Here is a link to the expenses of the McCain campaign:
http://tinyurl.com/bygwqs
We can see that the following expenses were being made for Anna Arodzero by the McCain campaign:
Arodzero, Anna, TIGARD, OR $ 183 October 23, 2008 TRAVEL
Arodzero, Anna, TIGARD, OR $ 627 September 30, 2008 TRAVEL
Arodzero, Anna, TIGARD, OR $1,667 September 30, 2008 TRAVEL
Arodzero, Anna, TIGARD, OR $1,028 November 14, 2008 TRAVEL
Therefore, it is proven that Anna Arodzero was not a “friend”, but a staff member of the McCain campaign.
This clearly shows us how carefully this deception was prepared and executed – and that “professional help” was involved right from the beginning.
So, when Anna Arodzero told that journalists that she was “a friend” and that they should contact the McCain campaign, the McCain campaign performed a major hoax here, as “the friend” was in fact working for the campaign herself!
It is obvious that all preparations were taken to keep the Johnston family away from the media.
I think we know, why.
Patrick (PD research)
ProChoiceGrandma,
Thanks for the mention of the Daniel Powter song, how fitting.
Amy1, I really enjoyed your Palin Confession, thanks.
my word is 'piontree,' isn't that what dogs do ?
duncan
ProChoiceGrandma: When I read your comment about Amy1's link (3-7-09 at 4:09pm) to an interesting article, I scrolled back to find her comment, but it had been removed. So now I'm really interested in what that article said! Can you or Amy1 update?
I think that in February, 2008, when Sarah brought up the rumor and told a member of the press that Bristol wasn't pregnant, what she really meant was that Bristol wasn't pregnant anymore. I think Trig had been born and was sequestered in an NICU in Anchorage as Baby Boy Doe. Perhaps Trip's unsuitable father had been told that the baby died, then Sarah faked a pregnancy to protect Bristol and keep this man out of her life.
Audrey, I hope you're feeling a lot better. Thanks for all the work that Morgan, the PD team and all the contributors are doing to move this story along.
I read this blog every day, but just don't have time to leave a comment even though I want to everytime I read!!! I live in Eagle River Alaska, just down the road from Wasilla. I apprecitate the research and blogs as I truly feel like she faked this pregnancy. I have thought all along that something strange was going on because we saw her right before her announcement and she did not look pregnant at all, she didn't move pregnant or anything, so when the announcement was made everyone in my house was shocked.
And the issue of Dar Miller - I think there is a whole lot more to that story and should surely be investigated. I have read nothing about it being investigated, and don't understand why. I think it should be reported to the FBI. I don't know if any of you are from Alaska - Wasilla is more of a bedroom community - there are alot of military and people that work in Anchorage. So basically they sleep and spend their weekends there. I don't think those people are even concerned or reading these blogs. So it's up to you guys to keep it going. Once again thanks for the blog and comments!!
ProChoicegrandma said;
"We know Sarah Palin did not give birth to Trig, therefore CBJ is complicit in the lies and loses all credibility for any statement in that letter, as any or all of it is intended to mislead."
Not to be picking on just this poster, but this is what bugs me about the tone of some of the posts. People may BELIEVE that Sarah is not the birthmother, but that is different from KNOWING (as in, it has been proven so).
The line between belief and fact seems to get blurred easily, based upon the level of passion behind one's opinion.
I BELIEVE that Sarah is the birthmother, but short of me having access to specific medical documents, delivery room pictures, conversations with first-hand witnesses, or being in the delivery room itself, I don't personally KNOW this to be the truth.
What if the 'water breaking' story was an accident? What if that's what SP told her dad as the reason she was flying home early? What if she freaked out when she realized her dad leaked it to the press, and now she had to cover for it.
That would explain her mumblings when asked about her water breaking. She knows it makes her look like a dummy...
Prochoicegramma said, "To Amy1 (see post at 3-7-09 at 4:09 pm)
Amy1, where in the world did you find that article?? Wow! I skipped over it at first because you had one of those “here” things (that always makes me lose my place), but upon returning and reviewing some of the comments from yesterday, I looked at it. It is sooooo close."
That post has been deleted.
To keep from losing your place on those imbedded links, right-click on the link and then select "Open in New Window".
I'm still looking for the Governor's detailed travel reports, listing flight numbers and dates..., not just a huge summary of her appearances.
Does anybody have the link?
Thanks,
P.
LondonBridges suggests:
Here is an answer to why would Sarah fake a pregnancy after Trig had already been secretly born (to Bristol) and not merely announce that she was courageously adopting a DS child.
Sarah is the governor of Alaska. Pregnancy & childbirth "happens."
However, if Sarah, while governor, announces she is "adopting" a DS child, the people of Alaska would rightfully question whether she was shirking her duty to be their full-time governor by taking on another full-time job while she was governor.
Um. Not quite satisfactory as a rational reason to fake. First, she would have to weigh the risks of a failed fake-attempt -- which could occur at any time with Trig alive -- versus some small percentage of voters deciding that her family adopting an DS child would take away from her duties MORE than just having an infant. DS infants are not so much more troublesome than a regular infant.
Second, she would probably get more of a boost for adopting a DS child than for simply having one. Simply having one "happens", as you say. Trying to make a difference by adopting one is a golden PR move.
Third, SP was already very popular. She could take a small hit from those who through adopting would distract her, although that would probably be an argument from her dissenters rather than her supporters.
SP and those around her would have to make an irrational choice to fake versus adopt with Trig already born in secret.
I see from recent posts that the Trig-early / Tripp-late camp is making a comeback. Good for you!! But now you have two sets of facts to gather to prove your theory. Try selling it to the Trig-in-Feb camp first. If you can convince them, us few holdouts in the Willow camp (is there anyone else?) will listen to your arguments.
On the other hand, if I can show that Willow wasn't in school from Feb-Apr 2008, I think the case is sealed since I don't have to open a 10-month window for Bristol x 2. Last time I looked, I'm halfway there, based on her travel records.
Dangerous
Patrick said;
"So Trig had a hole in his heart??? And SP wants to tell us that he was released from hospital the 2 days later, and then she took him to work, where he was exposed to all kind of infections? Does ANYBODY buy that? Because I don't!"
You might want to note the information that JillyG posted on 3/6 at 4:50AM. Her own personal experience with just such a case would give credence to the idea that a DS newborn with a hole in their heart could very well go home in two days, with no significant precautions necessary.
Now, this is anecdotal information, which can't always apply to everyone (although the use of anecdotal references doesn't seem to stop some people on this board from using them in such a way ;>), but it does seem as if it isn't a stretch to assume that Trig could have been taken home in two days and handled very much like a regular newborn.
Two comments about London Bridges reminding of political reasons for faking rather than adopting:
1. It's good to be reminded. I recall we've talked about this as a reason Palin might not have adopted, but that was many posts and months ago.
2. While it's OK to say "I can think of no reason why __," that is different than discarding a theory by saying, "There is no reason why ___." Few of us think like Sarah, and we don't know all the facts.
London Bridges said...
***Note that "her physician ordered" is a gender free term. Perhaps "her physician" was a "he" all along. CBJ has always been more likely Bristol's doctor given her specialty. So when "he" called with the results. it could have been the same person, a "he."
It's easy to read something into a quote that is not there. ***
Mary G. is our resident Palin amnio expert, but I think she'd agree that we don't know for sure who ordered the amnio -- if there was an amnio -- and who it was for.
I've seen no reason to suspect that Palin and CBJ have lied about her being Palin's physician since 1997. CBJ was *probably* Bristol's family physician too.
The issue would be did the amnio doctor (if there was an amnio) call Sarah to give her results on her minor child or did "he" pass the info along to CBJ, or some other primary care physician who ordered the test, to give to Sarah.
A primary care physician would not perform an amnio. And it would probably be done in Anchorage. She got the call at her office, probably in Anchorage, so she could have gone to talk to the amnio doctor there, or to CBJ or someone in Wasilla.
While this works into the background story of when she found out about Trig's DS, about the only thing it tells me -- IF she really got a call from a doctor -- was that Trig's mother was not her sister Molly or Track's lover. That call wouldn't go to Sarah.
I just saw by coincidence the very last sentence in the "offical" biography which was written by Kaylene Johnson (the one with the wrongly dated Christmas picture).
The sentence is:
"Sarah Heath Palin is at heart a sister, a daughter, and the little girl who learned how to work hard, stand up for herself, and never tell a lie."
Now THAT'S funny.
Patrick (PD research)
Tina Nelson at 12:02
I fully agree with the theory that the water-breaking story had it's roots in an "accident". SP carelessly told this story to her father, and he passed it on to the media on the 18th April 2008.
I am convinced that SP's original plan was to tell the world that she had "light contractions" in Texas, which were not serious at all. In fact, you can see traces of this "official version" at several places (for example at the beginning of the press conference from 21st April 2008, in the official birth announcement etc.).
When one reporter brought up the water-breaking story on 21st April 2008, SP started to have her difficulties to explain the story - and the creation of the Palin Deception Website was the direct consequence, because Audrey didn't buy the story and knew that there was something seriously wrong.
Therefore we all have to be incredibly thankful to Chuck Heath Sr!
As a reminder: The audio-tape of the press conference from 21st April 2008 can be downloaded here:
http://www.box.net/shared/zbok63zyah
Patrick (PD research)
Just counting months (not precise):
Tripp born by Feb 1 means conceived by May 1, two weeks after Trig born mid-April.
Possible for Bristol to get pregnant again. Every week later for Tripp and earlier for Trig would help the theory, though.
Evidence for Trig born early Feb:
Bristol (and Willow) go to 2/15 luncheon.
Evidence for Trig born mid-March:
Palin leaves Juneau for two weeks and Anchorage hospital stops posting birth announcements.
What else?
Hoping Audrey, Morgan and all are well and not too busy. I noticed something puzzling. Why have we all assumed that Sarah Palin did actually, legally adopt Trig? What if there was never any kind of paperwork? She seems to think that external reality can be bent to her stories: maybe she thinks her story about giving birth to him was all that would ever be needed!
I would really like to see that baby's birth certificate! grammy
Windy City Woman at 5:53
Sorry that you had trouble downloading the second document. But we tried here again to download it externally with the link which I gave, and everything worked fine. Would you just like to try again? Did anybody else experience a problem here?
Regarding Trig’s father:
We have indications that Bristol had a different boyfriend than Levi in May/June 2007, but unfortunately we cannot reveal the source right now.
However, that should not come as a big surprise. Even Lorenzo Benet writes in “Trailblazer” that Levi Johnson was “a schoolboy hockey player whom (Bristol) had been dating on and off for three years”. (p. 183)
So, just “on and off”…
Regarding the interview that Lisa Demer from the AND had with Cathy-Baldwin Johnson in 2008:
I find it incredibly strange that CBJ appeared to this interview with the AND together with her lawyer! This in itself speaks volumes. Since then, CBJ has been as quiet as a mouse and has been rejecting any interview requests and has never uttered a word to a journalist again.
Patrick (PD research)
Good find in the transcript, Penny:
SARAH PALIN: "plans that didn't include a baby, of course, but it did happen to her AND NOW AGAIN, less than ideal circumstances, but we make the most of it."
However, watching the interview, Palin says, "again less than ideal circumstances," rather than, "it did happen to her and now again."
Craig, for many of us, knowing Sarah did not give birth to Trig has been proved by the photos on this blog. We may say, "I believe," but we mean, "I'm convinced." (I understand you aren't convinced).
Sorry, there was a spelling mistake in one of my previous posts:
I wanted to say that...
"Regarding the interview that Lisa Demer from the ADN (not "AND") had with Cathy-Baldwin Johnson in 2008:
I find it incredibly strange that CBJ appeared to this interview with the ADN together with her lawyer! This in itself speaks volumes. Since then, CBJ has been as quiet as a mouse and has been rejecting any interview requests and has never uttered a word to a journalist again."
Patrick (PD research)
"On the other hand, if I can show that Willow wasn't in school from Feb-Apr 2008, I think the case is sealed since I don't have to open a 10-month window for Bristol x 2. Last time I looked, I'm halfway there, based on her travel records."
And I'm not opposed to Willow being the mom... well, yeah, since she's a young teen... oh, you know what I mean... but I will point out that the Palin family, judging by the amount of travel that occurs when SP isn't running for VP, doesn't seem to rate school attendance all that highly. I can see pulling one's kids out of school for a VP run, although I'd make sure there was a tutor along to keep the kids up to date on their lessons, which left the Palins evidently unconcerned... but during the school year, the kids seem to do a lot of travel. Adds up to a lot of missed time at school, I think. I don't know what their policy is, but in our district, if you miss 12 days of school even with excused absences, you've flunked that quarter. I'm amazed by the amount of travel time these kids have logged.
Patrick,
Thanks for the link to Gryphen's comments on the SP book. Maybe we should surf and look for other commentary on this book, and report it here?
Patrick & others,
There has been much discussion about the birth weights of Trig & Tripp, and trying to determine birth dates of both babies based on the weights. Let's not forget that we have no way of knowing if either birth weight is accurate, let alone both. We don't have birth certificates, and we know that Sarah and the truth are not best buddies, so let's not assume that those numbers are correct.
Ivyfree,
Sure, someone is claiming Tripp on a tax return, also Trig. But neither Sarah nor Bristol is running for office this year, so we won't see those returns. Bristol may not even have a tax return for 2008 if she worked minimally or not at all. If Sarah and Todd should happen to get audited, you can be sure that Republicans will say the audit is politically motivated. (Richard Nixon is dead; we know he kept an "enemies list.")
Someone suggested that perhaps Sarah took Bristol to NYC to have prenatal tests, such as amnio. I can't see that they would have to go thousands of miles for that. Perhaps she took Bristol on the trip so they could discuss pregnancy options. With HIPPA, the test should be private, even if done in Alaska. (I know that there are loose lips in spite of the law.) Even if they had the test(s) done in NYC, their insurer back home in Alaska would eventually see the records and bills. Would they pay cash for the test(s) in NYC to avoid this? I can't imagine not submitting a claim to the insurance company for privacy reasons. Even though it is a plan for state employees, it could very well be a private insurance company that handles the state employees' claims. Does anyone know about the insurance coverage for Alaska state employees?
Patrick, I'm with you on KJ's book:
B said...
I checked out Kaylene Johnson's book, "Sarah."
Chapter One starts with a box saying, "Honesty became a nonnegotiable family standard."
The book ends with "the little girl who learned how to work hard, stand up for herself, and never tell a lie."
I'd say the theme is Palin is truthful. How the mighty have fallen. The Trig deception. The response to the Troopergate report that clearly said they found wrongdoing, and Palin said, "They found no wrongdoing." And more.
February 6, 2009 8:06 AM
luna1580, are you still with us? I miss your insights, especially since we often agreed!
Patrick,
I was just now able to download that link. Thanks. 4th time's the charm.
Does anyone know about Todd Palin's siblings?
I assume he must have some, either full or half, since Sarah had a niece on eBay who I don't think was Chuck Jr, Heather, or Molly's daughter. (At least she wasn't in the 2006 Heath Xmas photo.)
RE: Patrick’s post at 3-8-08 at 11:08am:
Whewhoo! Mary G, I think you may have found the link that MSM would now take interest! Fantastic! Well, if there ARE any investigative reporters. Seems that the breed has died out or they are all too old to do the work any longer. It seems the younger generation of reporters are too lazy to do the work themselves. Great work Team PD!
Patrick said...I fully agree with the theory that the water-breaking story had it's roots in an "accident". SP carelessly told this story to her father, and he passed it on to the media
Palin had to have a story to explain Trig's arriving immediately after she got to the hospital, but without the no-no of her having been in the air while in serious labor. That story was that Trig's birth was induced.
A woman would normally be put on meds or bed rest to try to avoid the complications of a baby being born a whole month premature. Unless -- her fluid is leaking. Then she would be induced within 24 hours, as Sarah she says she was, since she noticed the leakage at 4 am CDT the previous day. (Is that 1 am Anchorage time?)
It's possible that while she didn't expect the leaking fluid to become such a big part of the story, she did intend it to be a necessary part of her story.
Patrick said...
Regarding Trig’s father:
We have indications that Bristol had a different boyfriend than Levi in May/June 2007, but unfortunately we cannot reveal the source right now.
Do you know who Bristol was dating in August 2007, in case Trig wasn't born in February?
Please everyone -
Read this blog at mudflats and if you agree vote as indicated.
http://www.themudflats.net/2009/03/08/a-quick-homework-assignment/
Thanks
Kathleen
lol my verification word is tallys!
I too applaud the moderators for the amazing job they are doing. I usually save my posts somewhere, but when there is nothing objectionable in them, it does not seem necessary. So, my last post, does not make much sense since it was the second of two. Let me recap:
I have been reviewing the GVS interview, as it provides us actually quotes. This interview was posted on February 18, 2009:
#1)VAN SUSTEREN: "Take me back to a year ago, when you first discovered you were going to be a mother. You -- I imagine you had to tell your parents."
A year ago she wouldn't pregnant for two more months according to the announcement on September 2, 2008. Semantics?..maybe.
#2)VAN SUSTEREN: "Had you told Levi's family?
BRISTOL: No, not yet.
VAN SUSTEREN: When did that come about?
BRISTOL: That came about probably, like, the following day."
It seems Sherry said that the kids needed to ..."sit down and make a game plan," exactly what the Palins had said the day before.
#3)VAN SUSTEREN: "What happened at school?
BRISTOL: I was -- it was during summer and school had just gotten out, so I just knew that I had to finish up high school and focus on getting an education.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know -- you know, we all learned about it in August or so, after -- and the media, I guess, dogged you a little bit."
I guess the game plan was to finish up high school and focus on getting an education, good thing they sat them down to craft that!
#4)VAN SUSTEREN: "It's tough -- I mean, it's, like, you get -- I mean, it's tough to do the school, do the planning. You're a new mother. You know, I can't imagine, you know, sort of the overwhelming nature of it right now.
BRISTOL: Yes, it's very overwhelming.
VAN SUSTEREN: What -- what's your mother's role now with the child? Does she -- I mean, do you take care of the child? Does your mother? I mean, who's really handling this right now?
BRISTOL: Well, I take care of him all the time. The only time I don't take care of him is when I'm at school. But my mom and my whole family -- I just am so blessed to have them because they help out a lot, more than I would have ever imagined, I guess."
I thought she was taking correspondence courses? She is living at the Palins, so what school is she at?
#5)VAN SUSTEREN: "Your parents know you're doing this interview. You're 18, so you make your own decisions, but do they know?
BRISTOL: I told my mom yesterday, so...
VAN SUSTEREN: That was good timing, yesterday.
BRISTOL: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: You don't give them much notice, do you, advance notice.
BRISTOL: No.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN SUSTEREN: So you spring it on her yesterday that you're going to do this interview and that it -- it involves the changes in your life, issues about teen pregnancy, and it's just -- she's not surprised that you did this.
BRISTOL: Yes."
What????????
#6)VAN SUSTEREN: "Nice to see you, Governor.
(CROSSTALK)
SARAH PALIN: ... You're up here.
VAN SUSTEREN: I wasn't expecting you.
SARAH PALIN: We were down on the river, had to come up just for a second, wanted to say hi and we'll run you down to the river. And I think some of your folks are going to meet us down there, too.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. We weren't expecting you because Bristol -- she told me that she had just sort of sprung the interview on you.
SARAH PALIN: Yes!
VAN SUSTEREN: And this is her idea about -- talking about the big picture of teen pregnancy.
SARAH PALIN: Yes, yes..."
(If I may?...blahblahblah...)
#7)VAN SUSTEREN: "Nonetheless, a surprise to you and the "first dude."
SARAH PALIN: Yes! Yes!
VAN SUSTEREN: You're grandparents at an early -- at a young age yourselves.
SARAH PALIN: I'm still getting used to having a -- you know, my last child, Trig, much less that, you know, knowing that we would have another little bundle of joy in our midst. So yes, it was a surprise. It was a shock."
What a loving way for her to descrbe her child. How about, "...knowing that we were going to be grandparents now!" I mean GVS gave her her line! Why does she always try to ad lib?
#8)VAN SUSTEREN: "Did you give her hell or were you -- at first? I mean, what...
SARAH PALIN: Yes, I kind of did. I mean, I was...
BRISTOL: We were all surprised.
SARAH PALIN: We were all surprised. Let me put it this way..."
(If I may again...blahblahblah...)
Good for Bristol for trying to shut down her mom, just never going to happen!
#9)VAN SUSTEREN: "So it's not just an issue of abstinence. That's one issue. But once we get beyond that -- you know, because when you have the discussion of abstinence, it's almost -- I always sort of feel badly because there's a wonderful child here and talking abstinence sounds -- I mean, it sounds...
SARAH PALIN: (INAUDIBLE) naive (INAUDIBLE)"
OOPS! That was a talking point for another question! Good thing GVS can bring her back on script!
VAN SUSTEREN: "Well, it doesn't even -- it doesn't even sound
naive, but it doesn't sound very nice because this is a wonderful young boy.
SARAH PALIN: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, I mean, and so I hate to have that topic...
SARAH PALIN: I hear (ph) you.
VAN SUSTEREN: You know, the bigger topic is, OK, now the situation -- the bigger question is, like, now -- you know, how to make it go right."
I'm sorry, but where did she get her law degree?
SARAH PALIN: "Exactly. Exactly. So you get behind that, that ideal of, yes, abstinence, you know? Hey, don't get pregnant. Well, get beyond that when it happens, and then you deal with it. Life happens. Life happens and you deal with it, and Bristol's dealing with it wonderfully."
What??????
"...So you get behind that, that ideal of, yes, abstinence, you know? Hey, don't get pregnant. Well, get beyond that when it happens, and then you deal with it."
What???????????
Maybe no bombshells, but if we continue to review what's been said and compare it with what we know.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,494205,00.html
Keep up the great work everyone!
Penny
B says:
"I'm under the impression that a preemie baby will be the size of a newborn when he reaches his due date. Trig is that size at the May 5 shower, suggesting an early February birth would mean he was at least 3 months premature."
Not necessarily B. A baby who was three months premature will likely not be the size of a full term infant by the time of their original due date. Infants born 12 weeks early and who have no genetic or other disorders are generally around 2.25-2.5 pounds pounds. An infant that size generally has difficulty with feeding and are usually on medications for a host of related lung function issues which can affect weight gain. Some of those bronchial meds can cause vomiting so nutrition is a huge issue. Couple that with difficulty suckling and you generally have infants who tend to be low on the weight charts for quite a while.
If Trig was an early birth (which I do believe he was) I don't think he was that premature but more like 6-7 weeks at most. An infant born at 34 weeks gestation would likely be between 4.25 to 4.75 pounds at birth and catching up to the low end of the growth charts would be more likely. A baby at 34 weeks, though still with immature lung development generally is able to breathe without a ventilator and the use of bronchodialators is less likely thus eliminating some of the difficulty the really low birth weight baby would have.
I just don't see an early Feb birthdate for Trig given his appearance two days after 'birth' at the Gov's office. In fact, Trig looked pretty darn healthy and normal.
Punkinbugg,
Here's the link to the travel expense reports:
http://tinyurl.com/chmflr
duncan
In regard to the children traveling, I think we also have to take into consideration a couple other factors.
I realize it's Alaska so driving virtually everywhere isn't quite the same as it is in the lower 48, but BP was old enough (and clearly had a license since she was in that accident) to be doing at least travel by car, which would be impossible for us to track.
We also have to take into consideration that SP may be flying the kids around WITHOUT charging the state.
I'm sure it would pain her to pick up the tab out of her own pocket, but that doesn't mean she didn't/wouldn't if it was necessary to move the kids around and there was no convenient function for them to attend on the state's dime.
Patrick on your summary---- Regarding rumors that Levi left school in March to assume his reponsibilities as a parent----
At another website after an article I read, in the comments, people were criticising Levi for quitting school. One person (who sounded like he/she knew Levi) wrote a comment to the effect that Levi has dylexia and therefore school was hard for him and that contributed to his decision to quit.
I'm just passing this along, I'm not vouching for its veracity.
Gryphen at Immoral Minority is up to Trig's birth in LB's SP bio. The ADN article, with CBJ's quote is discussed.
So, I want back and reread the ADN article:
""Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.
"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.
"I don't think it was unreasonable for her to continue to travel back," Baldwin-Johnson said.""
When I read this in the fall, it was colored by my belief that no way was SP's story true. But there's been a lot of discussion on this site about CBJ's liability. With all the risk factors if SP was pregnant with Trig, is it reasonable to beleive that a dr would risk a malpractice suit like this? I don't think so. But there's no risk of malpractice if SP isn't pregnant, is there?
Still, why would CBJ even say this much?
Thanks for the additional information on Palin's "spin" regarding the "early testing" and amnio timing, B and London Bridges. I have not read any of the biographies of Palin, but those are all good sources for her stories. The Hilly (?) book gives some interesting details, but they are not backed up by anything substantial, although I would like to dig a bit more.
I always thought another doctor was involved and did, in fact, assist in Trig's birth, and that this fact would be one of the courtroom shockers: While CBJ is on the stand for cross-examination, and the lawyer asks: Did you attend the birth of Trig Palin to this mother, Sarah Palin? She will answer: No, and the lawyer: Do you mean Sarah Palin is not the mother? and she'll reply: "no, I mean I was not present and did not deliver Trig." (Gasps all around.)
While I am not yet completely on board about a significantly earlier birthdate for Trig, I am rethinking Bristol's whereabouts, and it is starting to become clear that she was not at Heather Bruce's, but perhaps at another Aunt's (there are lots, on both sides of the family.) And maybe not for so long. As another reader noted, she would have only needed to be away from Piper in the last 6 weeks or so of the pregnancy (esp. if Trig were early). Trig may have been healthy enough after testing, but he may have stayed on at a relative's until Palin flew in from Texas (I believe Trig is noted on her schedule, after the following 4 (!) items:
1. Bristol: Interview Assistance/Set Up w/KTUU (Wasilla)
2. Gov: Interview w/KTVA and ADN (ANC)
3. Todd: Interview w/KBYR (Wasilla)
4. Trig's Birth
He's kind of far down there (he made it before the Eye Glasses Bill signing) (ANC).
Come to think of it, how could Palin give an interview in Anchorage? The whole thing is ridiculous.
And to other alert readers: On Palin's April Travel Authorization dealing with the Texas trip, there is NO return flight info. Ditto on the April 17 calendar, which notes she attended events until 3:30 pm, and NOT that she rushed away from the podium right after lunch. Hmmmmmmm.
Diana--
A few more typos on your timeline--
in 2007:
2-11-2007 (not 2008)
5-27-2007 Memorial Day (not 2008)
7-18-2007 (not 2008) to 8-18-2007
11-11-2007 (not 2008)
4-3-2008 It's Elan Frank (not Frank Elan)
Great! I love it! Lorenzo Benet doesn't even read his own drafts! So he has *two* versions (at least) of the early testing story (the following is courtesy of the heroic retelling of Gryphen at Immoral Minority, linked by Patrick above): "For the next five months, Todd and Sarah kept the pregnancy a secret. Any thoughts of breaking the news early to their kids were scuttled when Sarah learned her baby had Down Syndrome after having amniocentesis at thirteen weeks. (This is different then the four month timeline she identifies in this interview. Only a three week difference but still something most mothers do not get confused about.) Todd was away working when her family doctor, Cathy Baldwin-Johnsons, called with the news. Sarah drove to Johnson's office, discussed the implications , and received some reading materials on the disorder. Then she headed home to ponder her fate. (pg. 181)"
I always found the "excuses" for why Palin did not even tell her own children completely unbelievable and offensive to any notion of family values. The story just reeks.
But no one really has this timing right--maybe Palin will say the testing was done at 13 weeks, but she got the results at 4 months? but that is impossible.
Gryphen has some great analysis of the account and about the bizarre family dynamic it reveals! Plus a section on the Texas "wild ride."
A must-read.
Okay, one more post for today!
I just want to say: How important was that Texas trip? Palin actually was not a "keynote" speaker--she was a last-minute fill-in--go to the Palindeception website, and on the Palin's birth story page there is a link to a Dallas news report (from Sept, so it shows a bit of burnishing):
"In mid-April, Palin and her husband flew to Texas for an energy conference with fellow Republican governors. The trip was planned long in advance, but with days to go, Palin, a little-known governor from a faraway state, was asked to speak to her peers, filling in for Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. of Utah."
On reading other parts of the article, it appears that there were maybe 6 Republican Governors there, and a lot of oil men (well, maybe that is who runs this country). I find some of the speculation about the importance of this conference and her speech (OMG, we have all heard that energy speech so many times! all those cubic feet of natural gas, blah,blah, blah!) to be perplexing. It was an ego trip. But I will forge ahead, because, as with most of the Palin stories, this one exists in several versions.
Thanks, Duncan!
I've been through that report, and it only lists the children's names in the "Name of Traveler" box.
I was wondering if there was a similar set of pages with SP's flights, dates, ticket amounts, etc... to compare to the kids' tickets.
It sounded like Prochoicegramma had that at one point.
This would include her trips to ANC and FAI, as well as Tx and LAX.
When I go to the ADN website, the only travel report listed is a paltry ONE-page cost summary dated FEB 2009. ...NOTHING else...
Those scrubbing bubbles at it again?
Thanks again,
P.Bugg
My word verification is "questiqu"!
Sarah's address to the Special Olympics -
I would love to know what you think about this.
http://tiny.cc/akD66
Kathleen
Dangerous,
You still speak as though Tripp were really born Dec 27. But you have not spoken as to why that would be so, given my prior points.
All we need is about 10 months between births. A very likely birth date for Tripp is Jan 24 (approximately). Therefore, Trig born March 15-25.
Why fake a pregnancy on a child already born? Well, he may not have been born. But it looks like something made Sarah decide to fake the pregnancy late in the game. Perhaps she was weighing different options. Perhaps she really did want Bristol to adopt out. But the McCain nomination seems to me like a very strong possibility.
Once having decided to fake the pregnancy, timing was the decision maker. Being as far along as possible, and also missing the legislative session and going to that appointment in Texas. The wild ride was never intended to come off as absurdly as it did.
Why not simply announce that the family was adopting? I can see a lot of people saying "Suuuuuure they're adopting!" Bristol out of school with mono and pregnancy rumors, and then the family is "adopting" a baby. Nice. That should really take care of it.
It isn't true that once Bristol has given birth there is no longer a need to hide the source. Since they are keeping the baby, Bristol would be its source unless someone else claims to be.
When they used to send pregnant teens away to give birth, they also had to give the baby up for adoption. That way they came home alone, without a baby. No sense sending them away if they were going to come home with a baby.
Amy1 wrote:
***NY Tabloid Chick: Don't you consider the photo sequence proof? I'm not clear on what the definition of "proof" is. But photos from unimpeachable sources seem as good as an eye-witness -- better, in some ways.***
To me, they are proof; to unbelievers I've shown them to, they have been proof. Under ordinary circumstances, I'd consider the photos to be direct evidence in a legal sense (i.e., a store video showing someone shoplifting). But a photo showing padding is only direct proof that she padded and was not at her stated stage of pregnancy; it's not direct proof that she wasn't pregnant. I also think the lack of photographer ID and a definite date/timestamp on many of them is a problem in pushing them into the 'direct evidence' camp (your reference to an unimpeachable source). Mind you, I find them totally convincing. I did speak with two lawyers (I've studied legal issues extensively but stopped short of taking the LSAT to go to law school...$$$) who find the pictures convincing but say they might not be considered direct evidence; for many of them, you might not be able to get the photographer into court to testify to the date and time and authenticity. Now THAT would be a serious nail! ("I saw her at this event and this date; she did not appear to be pregnant and was wearing a giant square pad on her stomach, so I took the photo.") But as I said before, direct isn't always better than a big pile of circumstantial.
Patrick said...
Our resarch team has created a "Trig-Tripp comparison document" with pictures of the newborn Trig and the newborn Tripp, which can be downloaded here:
http://www.box.net/shared/16i3exvcte
It is interesting to note that the "larger" Tripp with an official birthweight of 7 lb 3.5 oz was in fact not larger at birth at all than Trig with an offical birthweight of 6 lb 2 oz.
Patrick (PD research)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I Wonder why Tripp in the very first photo on the page (The one where Levi is holding Tripp) is wearing PINK!?
Boys are dressed in BLUE, so WHY is Tripp (who we have been told was a boy) dressed in pink?
Also, Trig has a HUGE head for a baby that is supposedly a new born (and for Sarah to be traipsing around in high heels 3 days later.....if you know what I mean)
Compare the pics of Trig next to that of Trigg and there is a huge difference in the size of the head, (not so much so in body wise)
B at 4:04
Sorry, I should have been more specific.
The same source also strongly indicates that Bristol already knew in June 2007 that she was pregnant.
Patrick (PD research)
Oh my God, this newly discovered video about SP adressing the Special Olympics made my stomach turn.
Gryphen has featured the video today in his blog:
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/
And below that on Gryphen's page, you will find another excellent post by Gryphen about the description of SP's pregnancy in the "Trailblazer" biography.
Patrick (PD research)
And now for some good news.
I have searched the winter olympics site. The games ended on February 13th and it appears that Sarah's video was not used in any of the promotions made by the official body. I think that she made the video as a fluff self promotion piece and it was decided that they would not use it because of her cut to the Alaskan Legislative approved grant to the Alaska Special Olympics body. I know that this is supposition but I like to think that they had the balls to tell her "Thanks but no thanks" for her video contribution.
Kathleen
My verification? Outso!
Mary G @ 3/9, 8:19PM
Good find!
That reminded me of something I had read about the April 2008 energy conference:
From the Austin American-Statesman, 4/12/2008:
http://tinyurl.com/bemcov
========================
Perry plans closed-door chat with GOP governors
Conservative staffers caucus, causing stir
Saturday, April 12, 2008
Perry, 9 GOP governors plan to chat in private
Fresh from hosting a private gala for the visiting Aga Khan tonight, Gov. Rick Perry will gear up for another secretive do.
Perry and nine other GOP governors are penciled in to attend the closed-to-the-press Texas Governors Forum on Thursday at the $229-a-night Gaylord Texan Resort in Grapevine near Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport.
Perry chairs the Republican Governors Association, which is sponsoring the forum. Governors expected for at least part of the day are Sarah Palin of Alaska, Sonny Perdue of Georgia, Felix Camacho of Guam, Linda Lingle of Hawaii, Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota, Matt Blunt of Missouri, Jim Gibbons of Nevada and Jon Huntsman Jr. of Utah.
Highlight: a closed-to-the-public roundtable on energy in the 21st century moderated by Michael Williams, chairman of the Texas Railroad Commission.
Roundtablers are expected to include Greg Boyce, chairman and CEO of the Peabody Energy Corp.; John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil; Robert A. Malone, chairman and president, BP America; Anthony Orlando, president and CEO, Covanta Energy Corp.; and John Somerhalder II, chairman and CEO, AGL Resources.
Also on the agenda: "A Conversation with the Governors."
That's expected to take 90 minutes, or 70 minutes more than the association plans to devote to its public moment, an afternoon news conference.
-- W. Gardner Selby
========================
It's not clear whether and how closely this forum was tied to the McCain campaign, much less the whole VP selection process. Recall that at the time gas prices were going through the roof and Republicans were formulating their "Drill, Baby, Drill!" campaign. So it was perfectly reasonable that SP, as governor of an important energy state, would have interest and reason in attending--regardless of whether her being VP might be on the radar screen.
So I agree that some of the speculation on this blog about how important SP attending this conference was to her getting selected as VP nominee goes a bit beyond the facts.
That having been said, we know that SP is a shameless self-promoter and who knows what was going on inside her head? Maybe SHE thought it essential to attend the conference, to keep her name in the VP mix.
Note too that also attending were Govs. Jindal and Pawlenty, two other possible VP candidates mentioned at the time.
Let's not lose track of some of the key pieces of the puzzle that we had looked at previously. I had occasion last night to look at the photos of Mercede with Triggy Bear, Bristol (Family Love; Sister IN-LAW) and Sarah (Mommy In-law). Now we also have a photo of Levi and Bristol, in which Levi clearly has a wedding ring on (photo provided by Sherry J to a British paper). There is no doubt that these photos imply that in Sadie's mind, "we are family." (BTW, there is nothing about Willow here.)
Mary G, I usually agree with you but I don't see any reason to dismiss the Bristol-living-with-Heather-Bruce stories at this point in time.
"I just want to say: How important was that Texas trip? Palin actually was not a "keynote" speaker--she was a last-minute fill-in... It was an ego trip. "
What could be more important to SP than her ego?
I just left this comment for Gryphen on Immoral Minority - and this is of course relevant here, too, so I would like to share it:
Gryphen,
thanks a lot again for another great post about "Trailblazer".
Sarah did not just give a speech on the 17th April 2008. She had a very full schedule in the morning.
Her schedule had been obtained through a FOIA request. On the 17th April, her schedule was the following:
7:00 am GOV Registration and Hospitality (The Gaylord Texan Resort--Palomino 3 (third floor)
8:00 GOV Breakfast & Governors' Only Meeting (The Gaylord Texan Resort--Palomino 3)
9:00am-9:15 GOV Meet w/ Gary Luquette, Pres. Chevron, Stev[illegible] 9:15-9:30 am GOV Meet w/Marvin Odum-Incoming Pres, Cam [cut off]
10:30--GOV: New Member Brunch Reception (The Gaylord Texan Resort--Yellow Rose Pavillion (Lobby Level)
11:30-GOV "Powering America: Energy in the 21st Century: Roundtable (The Gaylord Texan Resort--Yellow Rose Ballroom)
1:00pm-2:15 pm GOV: Governors Lone Star Luncheon *
1:00pm-1:15pm GOV Press Conference (The Gaylord Texan Resprt)
GOV arrives at 1:25 pm (The Gaylord Texan Resort --Texas C (Convention Center)
2:30--GOV "A Conversation with the Governors" (The Gaylord Texan Resort--Texas Rose Ballroom)--blocked out until 4:00
The next entry: 11:00pm--GOV: Todd: Arrived back in AK
All after her water had broken...
The schedule can be downloaded here:
http://www.box.net/shared/clahh4tas1
And this clip contains unique footage from the 17th April 2008 in Texas - Sarah looks very calm and satisfied. This is a woman who is in labour? I think the biology books have to be rewritten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvZeL-jFpF0
Gryphen, lots of love from palindeception!
Patrick
That meeting with the oil men at the Texas conference was VERY important. These guys-chairman and CEO of the Peabody Energy Corp. president of Shell Oil; chairman and president of BP America; president and CEO of Covanta Energy Corp, chairman and CEO of AGL Resources--are America's kingmakers. I remember eating lunch at a country club in WIchita Falls once and listening to these guys talk about how they put Johnson in the White House (with Kennedy, but the focus was on Johnson!)
Sarah seems to have an enviable ability to charm men (and some women like GVS) to the point they get all giddy and lose all sense. Might have been a little harder to work that mojo wearing a pillow under her shirt, but maybe not!
OK I listened again to the press conference on the 21st with SP and TP about the birth. It's obvious to me that she is "telling a story" rather than telling about her actual labor and delivery. I'm thinking a forensic speech person could pull that whole thing apart and show us the deceptions.
She said that "every situation has a purpose" right before she says that God picked them to raise Trig and have him be a part of their family, etc, etc........
So, what "situation" would that be? A 43 year old married woman having an unplanned pregnancy with known risks for Downs and other chromosomal abnormalities? Doesn't seem like a "situation" really, and the Down Syndrome is arguably the luck of the draw.
How about this "situation"...her teenage daughter becomes pregnant and rather than be open about it at the time, SP does the big 1950's coverup and winds up with "her" fifth child who unexpectedly has Down Syndrome......now THAT is a "situation"!! Isn't that just like God to throw her for a loop like that....but Trooper Sarah takes it in stride and accepts God's....um....I mean Sarah's...plan to raise Trig in the family as her own. In her mind, she gets "extra credit" for taking on a DS child who is not her own. With a bunch of help from Bristol, Trig's real mommy.
Oh, I also noticed SP said Trig was named after a "Bristol Bay" relative. Huh. Makes ya wonder, also. Too.
^^^Dangerous said...
NY Tabloid chick replied:
***The circumstantial evidence, and SP's decisions during that time, do not support Trig already being born.***
Not sure what circumstantial evidence supports Trigg being UNborn at that time. The only evidence we have of Trigg's birthdate is SP's statement. That's it. And if this were a court case, we'd be instructed that if we find the defendant to lack credibility, we are entitled to dismiss any or all of her testimony.
I agree we can dismiss SP's testimony in whole or part. The circumstances I'm referring to is the faking itself. I cannot see any rational reason for SP to fake a pregnancy when the child had already been born. If they planned to keep it, they could say they are adopting an abandoned child. Since the child is born, and nobody who is going to reveal the secret knows about it, why fake a pregnancy to cover-up a fait accomplit?^^^
Well, that's your problem :): You're looking for rational reasons from SP!! I believe she faked the pregnancy to cover for Bristol and to deflect the BP-is-pregnant rumors that were already going around. Many posters here have mentioned that there are waiting lists for babies with Down Syndrome; SP cutting the queue to get one before others on the waiting list did would not sit well with them; it would also add strength to the rumors of a BP pregnancy. SP's plan was a scramble to cover circumstances she couldn't control (BP deciding to keep the baby) and we've all seen that SP is good when she's scripted, disastrous when she's not. Also, too, there were rumors of Track behavioral problems; he gets sent away. There were rumors of Bristol behavioral problems; she gets sent away. I think adopting a new one after sending away the troubled older ones would strike many people as deeply creepy; not the image of baby-cub-mama SP tries to project.
^^^They could still put the child up for adoption, if he recovers from his speculated time in NICU. The only rational reason to fake a pregnancy is if you intend to disguise the source of an infant you are planning to keep. Period. Once Bristol is no longer pregnant and nobody knows she's given birth, there is zero, ZERO, reason to risk detection of a faked pregnancy.^^^
There you go again Dangerous, lookin' to the rational, also! :) We're not dealing with rational. And we can't look at this with 20/20 hindsight; we have no idea if the BP-is-the-mommy rumor would've stopped after an adoption story was put out there, and I think in SP's mind, she thought she'd be free and clear after Trigg was born; just 2 months of padding, a loathing of MSM to really delve into the baby's history, story over. If she foresaw the story going on and on, I don't think she would've handled it the same way, and that's part of why she's so angry at the pajama basement people. She would've gotten away with it, if it weren't for those meddling kids!
^^^That's the circumstantial evidence that blows a hole in the Bristol x 2, Trig born in Feb scenario.^^^
I am not sure Trigg was born in February; I just think he was earlier than stated and Tripp was later than stated. A few weeks in each direction would work.
^^^If you want to attribute an irrational scenario for SP faking, you have to explain why her family and the doctor, and all the nurses in Trig's NICU, would go along.^^^
Her family goes along with everything she does. The Dud is away for weeks at a time; Track was sent away; and at the risk of sounding judgmental, the rest of her family, especially her sisters, seem to have a, well, lax attitude when it comes to baby mommies, baby daddies and parenting as a whole. Doctor Cathy's career is very much tied to SP; she's gotten service awards from SP and has much to lose by NOT going along. No other doctors have stepped forward. This doesn't surprise me; has any doctor stepped forward to claim Michael Jackson's plastic surgeries as his/her handiwork, for example? As far as the nurses, how many are there? And how many even knew the truth? Without a birth certificate, we don't know Trigg's name. We don't know if he was Baby Boy Palin in the hospital (I know I was just "Female" because I wasn't named until later, so I don't have an official name until my baptismal certificate). Maybe they used another last name, like from one of her sisters (god knows that one sister has as many last names as Elizabeth Taylor). Until/unless we know that, we can't even speculate as to how many people had to be in on it. But I think it's a pretty low number.
^^^It is true that some jurors would accept the evidence as is and conclude SP faked the pregnancy, in the absence of direct evidence that some other woman is Trig's mother. But it would never be unanimous, assuming a judge would let it go to a jury, which he probably wouldn't with that much reasonable doubt.^^^
Which is why I'm not so fond of looking at this like a criminal case (if anything, I'd see it as a civil case, which doesn't require unanimity). I never expect this to be unanimous. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that; you could have a video of BP giving birth to Trigg, holding a March 3 newspaper and screaming "I am Trigg's mother" and you still won't get all of SP's base to believe. (A judge can let a case go to jury regardless of whether he/she believes there is reasonable doubt.)
^^^Also, by 'conjecture' I mean comments such as "Bristol looked" this way toward Trig as support for a theory. When prosecuting a case, one can speculate on some things, but can't assume facts not in evidence. Speculation is fine, but we all have to be careful that the speculation doesn't create contradictions in our own arguments.^^^
That sort of commentary/speculation is important, because in many cases right on this board, people have stated that the Levi baby kiss, or Bristol's warmth toward Trigg at the convention, are the very events that caused them to examine all of these 'nutty theories' in the first place. And those sorts of behaviors, what you might, in the criminal-case analogy, treat as the actions of a guilty party, might indeed serve as circumstantial evidence. If a bank is robbed, and one guy comes running out as the police arrive, you can bet he'll be grabbed and questioned. We all have our own feelings about certain behaviors that indicate 'something' is afoot.
^^^I *speculate* that Willow may not have attended school in early 2008.
I *speculate* that they may have hid Bristol to deflect attention from Willow.
I *speculate* that Willow may have been better able to disguise a pregnancy for longer since casual observers are not expecting a 14-year-old to look pregnant.
None of those speculations run counter to the evidence, either direct or circumstantial. If Willow is Trig's mother, why would the ruse only fall on SP and not Bristol?^^^
You can speculate on anything you want! No one's taking that away from you. Others, including myself, may speculate otherwise, or find the speculations of others (and/or statements by the SP camp) to be less credible than our own. The idea of hiding BP to deflect attention from Willow doesn't pass my personal test, but you're certainly entitled to keep feeling that way. Again, this is still about SP; however she manipulated her family is something that will eventually come out, but it's just not that important to me.
^^^It is fair *speculation* that SP waited to start faking so she wouldn't have to do it as long. I think that's dumb, since her late announcement raised lots of eyebrows. But she might have.^^^
I don't find that credible as well; I think she started faking as soon as she needed to, and her intention was NOT to fake a full pregnancy. If it had been, she would've behaved in ways that would've clued in her co-workers. Someone here pointed out that they've almost never been surprised when someone announced their pregnancy, and I agree; behavioral and subtle body changes cue you in long before the announcement, which is often just a confirmation. I don't think the idea of faking occurred to SP when BP told her she was pregnant.
^^^It's conjecture to assume motives that a rational person wouldn't have, then assert that SP is also coldly calculating. People aren't selectively rational and irrational on something as huge as a faked pregnancy.^^^
Really? I disagree. In fact, people as narcissistic (and whatever other psych profiles one could attribute) as SP are very much like this. Remember Scott Peterson, who killed his pregnant wife in California a few years back. Spent weekends painting a room for the new baby while simultaneously doing computer research on body-dumping. I think the rational side of SP was concerned with protecting her own career and reputation; the rest of her behavior, like her treatment of family issues, reveals a deeply irrational side.
^^^I could go through these logical arguments all night and for months longer. I appreciate the responses to my posts. At least I know someone is paying attention. I just want to see some direct evidence that Bristol is Trig's mother, because the circumstantial evidence (Exhibit #1: Tripp) doesn't support it any longer. You might still have a viable theory if you had some direct evidence of earlier birth for Trig. But without a rational motive to fake a pregnancy on an unrevealed living child (rather than just adopting), it is illogical to suggest Trig was born in February.^^^
For me, the Bristol x 2 theory continues to be Trigg earlier than 4/18 and Tripp later than 12/27. Anything more than that, I'm not willing to give dates... yet. But if you have dismissed this theory because neither date has been proven, you're welcome to do so. I think it just becomes stronger.
Verification: suaves!
To Onething and others still promoting Bristol x 2 / Trig early & Tripp late / theory:
Your theory is stronger than Bristol x 2 / Trig in Feb theory because SP would start faking prior to Trig's birth. You still have to overcome with evidence -- not conjecture or speculation -- quesitons of where they hid Trig for weeks. It may be possible for Trig to have been nearly full term in mid-March, but you have to bias your analysis of April 18 & later pictures to explain Trig's small size. But there's room to fudge.
Nevertheless, your theory requires multiple, simultaneous schemes, and I don't see the Palins as competent as the group from Ocean's Eleven.
The revelation that Anna Arodzero (A-Rod Zero?! How prescient is that?!) was a McCain campaign operative is no surprise to me. The announcement on Sept 1 was a brilliant PR stroke. I knew professionals were involved. And we know they knew about us and were worried.
I'd like to remind everyone that the way these kinds of professional operate is they attack their opponent at the weakest point. The theory on Sept 1 was that Bristol was Trig's mother. If that was false, that's the weakest point. They could discredit the theory without disproving it conclusively which, if they had the evidence, they would have.
Many of you may not like it or may not agree, but professional PR people announcing Bristol's pregnancy probably makes it true. PR pros know that creating a falsehood to cover-up another one usually does not work. Doing so triples the likelihood the entire scheme will be exposed. For MSM, it was strong evidence that the faked-pregnancy theory was internet garbage.
Dangerous
The March "Draft Palin in 2012" Madness has begun! Fasten your seat belts (unless you think it will wrinkle your fake belly!) and proceed.
http://tinyurl.com/bukfw6
Punkinbugg--
I think Patrick posted a link for the site containing SP's travel records from the State of Alaska website. I looked at it when he posted it (a couple of weeks ago), but did not save a link. I remember it was from the State of Alaska website, maybe from an accounting or finances website.
I tried to find it again, but only found a summary listing of her travel, not the individual travel reports for each trip.
Patrick--can you give us the link to SPs individual travel records again?
Hi Patrick,
That Box'ed link is just what I was looking for!
It shows the GOV's travel report for Feb 14-26, as well as the entire hard-to-read fuzzy calendar from Feb - Apr, 2008.
This should be fun!
:)
P.Bugg
B--I believe that Todd has a brother James D. Palin, in Anchorage. James is married to Wendy Palin, who is an aesthetician in the office of plastic surgeon.
B--There was a flurry of information way back on a boy in Alaska that had "I love Bristol Palin" on his MySpace website. This may be who Patrick is referring to. I think Patrick and the other PD Assistants need to keep some things confidential in order to protect their investigation.
midnightcajun--
Amen! to your post on the oilmen kingmakers. I worked for a Texas oil company for years and saw this type of thing in action.
Texas and Alaska have ALOT in common!
Not only do Texans still have McCain/Palin stickers on their cars, I've seen two different versions of PALIN 2012 stickers already. So keep up your efforts everyone. It is critical.
NY tabloid chick: Thx for your response. Just to clarify your points on proof for my pea-sized brain with zero legal training:
To me, the padding is almost irrelevant as far as proof goes. Anyone can pad up.
On this array of 3 photos, which to me constitutes true, total proof, the proof is in the first two photos (brought to our collective attn exclusively by Audrey and her pals and this blog, I hasten to add).
Left photo: the proof is in the flatness of the stomach. No problem with photographer, since there are many photos of this event -- although this one photo is the best for seeing the flat stomach clearly.
Middle photo: to me, the proof is in the smallness, not the padding, nor the rectangular label/patch showing through, nor the odd shape. Although the photographer here, an amateur, might balk at legalites, the fact that the clothes, setting, date, are confirmed by other ADN photos and text of this event on that date -- all this makes it an unassailable piece of proof. To me.
Right photo: We can assume, as I do, that this is a fake belly, but we have no proof. The irony of this photo is that in its fakeness it makes the case WORSE for SP, because it is a photo SP and Gusty authenticate, and it does show a size of PG that is approx normal -- making us able to SHOW the huge contrast in size rather than just talk about it.
The date/timestamp issue for both photos is addressed by multiple confirming photos in newspapers on the same day; photographer reluctance ditto.
Forgive me for worrying this bone endlessly, and help me understand any actual weak link here. I mean in the most rigorous legal sense, not among "just us girls." (I include the cool men who contribute here in that last phrase, one of my faves from the time that my v cool kewl boss, a man, used to use it in similar situations at his conference table, at which I was the only person of the female persuasion.)
So, help me understand: how is this not airtight?
Thank you,
LisanTX for the Todd sibling info, Patrick for the Bristol June info (which helps me understand your early Feb birth theory better), and Tabloid Chick for taking the time to add very coherent answers.
NY tabloid chick said...
"The only evidence we have of Trigg's birthdate is SP's statement. That's it. And if this were a court case, we'd be instructed that if we find the defendant to lack credibility, we are entitled to dismiss any or all of her testimony."
You also have the news report when the Heaths were interviewed by a reporter and photographed by a photographer holding Trig in the hospital on his birthdate. When the reporter also stated that Bristol certainly did not look like she was the one who had just given birth.
Now you certainly can discount this evidence if you want, especially if you believe that the hospital, the reporter and the photographer are covering for SP. I kind of find it hard to believe that hospital would allow this fraud knowing that SP did not just birth that baby, and the reporter and the photographer would put there reps on the line for SP.
And I know some believe that the baby looks older than stated. But I personally think the baby looks like a newborn.
If this were a court case, I suspect SP would give her permission to hospital staff to testify, then you would have more evidence. But its not, so for now shes not inclined to provide any more evidence.
Regarding Trig’s father:
We have indications that Bristol had a different boyfriend than Levi in May/June 2007, but unfortunately we cannot reveal the source right now.
Do you know who Bristol was dating in August 2007, in case Trig wasn't born in February?
This would be Chris Ray, whom I posted about here just a few days ago, but it never showed up. Rumor has it that Ray is black or of mixed race, which is part of why Levi was brought into the picture.
penny, thanks for dissecting that interview. My favorite part:
BRISTOL: We were all surprised.
SARAH PALIN: We were all surprised.
(Yeah, Sarah, Bristol just told us.)
Maybe Bristol was surprised because Levi used condoms, or she didn't realize that pregnancy was a risk of sex. But most likely they "were all surprised" because they thought it was too close to Trig's birth for Bristol to be pregnant again. (And, they assumed she had learned her lesson from Trig's unplanned birth.)
Truthseeker2,
Not only does Mercede indicate a family relationship arond Trig, there were rumors in Wasilla of a secret shotgun wedding around Trig's birth. I've wondered if that's why Levi and Bristol didn't openly marry before Tripp's birth: that they are already married and are waiting to have a ceremony/party this summer, or at some point that hasn't happened yet when Bristol isn't pregnant.
Thanks, sg, for going back to the account of Palin's Texas trip--of course it was important for her to be there, although it probably was not the deal-maker in terms of the VP nomination.
I had forgotten about this article, praising Palin for her "honesty," her ruthlessness to opponents, and her assaults on free speech (is the Weekly Standard talking about the Anchorage Daily News when it says she forced the Daily News to drop a section/column that was critical of her?:
http://tinyurl.com/6yz7fv
And Truthseeker2--I should not muddy the waters with my pet theories--but I was starting to think that Bristol may have stayed with Aunt Heather over the summers, but not at the crucial time before Trig's birth--just because Heather Bruce's own young children would have been super curious about their expanding cousin and their Aunt Sarah's surprise announcement.
Oh, to find the key that unlocks some of these mysteries! It is probably right under our noses!
Another interesting observation...
Bristol was wearing an engagement ring at the RNC, but in the GVS interview she was no longer wearing it.
Punkinbugg,
I am glad that I could help you.
The schedule is difficult to read, however, we scanned it with a high quality, so you can enlarge it and then read it much easier.
Thanks for your efforts! Looking forward to hear from you again.
Patrick (PD research)
I find the physical comparisons between the two T's to be strikingly different.
Trig DEFINITELY looks like the other Palin daughters, especially Piper. Almost a ringer for Piper.
To me, from what I can see of TRIPP...he resembles Levi. He has a thiner face with finer features and this is even allowing for the facial characteristics that are normal for DS children. I'd expect to see more similarity between two full-fledged siblings.
There's NO WAY I feel that SP had a baby last year, but that baby (Trig) looks very Palin-esque and not so Levi-like. It can happen (my two look very different), but, it's one more curiosity to me.
"As far as the nurses, how many are there? And how many even knew the truth?"
If Sarah had been the mother, the nurses would have known her and would definitely recall the birth. Sarah could easily confirm the birth by asking the nurses involved to affirm that they were present. I get the HIPAA violations, but it surprises me that no rumors have sneaked out.
"The March "Draft Palin in 2012" Madness has begun!"
No need to draft her. She's a volunteer.
RE: the comments on adoption.
For those saying, "Why didn't Sarah just tell people they were adopting?", this likely would not have worked out very well for them. First, no one "accidentally" adopts. People DO accidentally conceive. An adoption requires planning, and it certainly could have given the appearance that she wasn't giving her all to her job as Governor.
Second, any reasonable person could have asked any or all of the following questions IF the Governor said she was adopting: Which agency are you using? Who is your adoption attorney? What made you decide to adopt now after having four biological children? If adoption was something you'd planned, why adopt now when you're holding this demanding job? Did you specifically ask for a special needs child? If so, why? Can you manage a special needs child and be Governor? Were you chosen by the birthparents or is this a completely closed adoption? Can we see a copy of your adoption profile? Did you identify yourself as the Governor of Alaska to potential birthparents? When did you sign up with your agency? Who did your homestudy? When was your homestudy completed?
ALL of these reasonable questions to ask of a public official who is adopting. And Sarah likely would not have had a decent answer for those questions.
I have been around the adoption community for a long time, and I can tell you that every time a celebrity or politician adopts, it gets brought up on the adoption forums, and there are always comments inquiring about that person's agency, how long they waited, did they get special treatment based on their status, etc. Sarah's "adoption" would have certainly raised eyebrows in the adoption world, especially if she refused to name an agency or attorney.
All of those adoption related questions would not be asked if she announced her pregnancy. In addition to pregnancy just "happening" on it's own, it also involves rather intimate relations that most journalists don't want to inquire about. No reporter was going to walk up to the Governor and say, "were you trying to conceive, or was this an accident?" "Were you using birth control?"
Adoption would also likely have made the "Bristol is pregnant" rumors worse. We KNOW there were rumors about Bristol being pregnant BEFORE Sarah announced her "pregnancy." These rumors were apparently so widespread that she felt compelled to tell a reporter that it wasn't true. If she'd suddenly shown up with an adopted baby and a non-pregnant Bristol, it would have done nothing to put a stop to the rumors. Most people simply would have assumed that she "adopted" Bristol's baby. But announcing her own pregnancy and then later showing up with a baby and a non-pregnant Bristol helped to cover up those rumors. Faking a pregnancy gave Sarah a way to produce a baby and claim it as her own without adding fuel to the rumor fire.
As for speculation that Bristol may have planned to adopt out Trig, I think this is also highly unlikely. Most domestic adoption agencies will tell you that the teenager pregnant by her high school sweetheart is merely a birthmother stereotype. Most birthmothers now are not teenagers - they are in their twenties, they are out on their own in the world and have had enough "life experience" to know that raising a child at this point in their lives will be pretty darn tough. Whereas most teenagers who become pregnant keep their babies, often because they are still living at home and have family support and/or they have not been out in the world on their own and therefore have a more unrealistic view of what parenting and supporting themselves will be like.
Add in Sarah's status as Governor and her family's socioeconomic status, and odds are very, very slim that Bristol would have considered adoption for her child. My guess is that Bristol hid the pregnancy for as long as possible, until it was too late for an abortion, and Sarah decided to take over and fake a pregnancy either shortly before his birth or after he was born.
The other thought I had, when learning that Sarah and Bristol went to NYC several months into someone's pregnancy with Trig is that perhaps Sarah took Bristol along in an attempt to procure a later-term abortion. New York City is one of the few places where abortions are available past 20 weeks. While Sarah may claim to be pro-life, you'd be amazed how many "pro-life" people feel abortion is murder - until THEY or someone in THEIR family has an unplanned pregnancy. My theory (based primarily on speculation) is that IF Bristol is Trig's mother, then perhaps Sarah did attempt to procure a later abortion only to either have Bristol refuse or to have the clinic turn them down because of how far along Bristol was or because Bristol expressed misgivings to a counselor at the clinic. At the time, Sarah was NOT widely known outside of Alaska or outside of conservative circles, and she could easily gone into a clinic in New York City without being recognized. While there are other clinics in the US that provide later term abortions, many are in less liberal locations (like Wichita, KS) and are subject to regular picketing and protests, whereas the NYC clinics tend to be left alone. Again, speculation on my part, but I think it's just as possible as any other theory out there.
-Annie
As requested, I have made a list of all the documents which are available for download at the moment from Palin Deception research in my profile, together with the download link.
I will update this list when new documents have been uploaded.
Just click on my profile name, then you will see what we have available.
Patrick (PD research)
(my word verification is "tripsu"...)
Sarah and Todd own two rural cabins/land jointly with friends. One of these friends is Brad & Carolyn Hanson--the parents of Brita Hanson--who works for Sarah and is Track's girlfriend.
Both properties are in the Mat-Su area. So they are close enough to drive to and from. Sounds like these are country places where one could hang out for periods of time in privacy. (Like waiting for a baby to be born.)
So besides all the family in Anchorage and elsewhere, here are some other possibilities.
This information is in the public records from SP's state financial disclosures.
Oriole mentioned Chris Ray as someone Bristol might have been involved with.
In addition,I recall that another young man was mentioned. He was the one who had "I love Bristol Palin" on his MySpace site. I checked out his site at the time I heard of him, but didn't save any pictures or comments. (darn)
Wasn't it established that Chris Ray was actually not from the Mat-Su area but someone from the lower 48 that just put up his page to get attention? I think that this was "debunked" way back in the fall and he is not at all involved with this story. There is a Chris Ray that attended Palmer High (Bristol went to Wasilla High) but as far as I can tell he is not the same person as the one who penned the "I love Bristol" entry on his myspace page. I think it's a dead end.
Dangerous said, "PR pros know that creating a falsehood to cover-up another one usually does not work."
Actually, it's a classic, classic espionage trick: cover up one nasty secret with another juicy "secret" that's actually a lie. People get distracted chasing the juicy, made-up (or at least altered) secret, thus drawing attention from the first real secret that's being hidden. This is a classic case, and it worked!
I agree with one thing, though: the GOP spooks hit the rumors where they knew they were weakest: i.e., up until recently everyone assumed Trig's stated birthdate was real. If the GOP knew it wasn't, that gave them extra power over all the pajama-clad bloggers.
On another note, I, too, found that "we were surprised" statement, made by both Sarah and Bristol, weird. I knew two friends in high school who fell pregnant. Of all the emotions they experienced (and in those pre-R v W days, they were many), "surprise" was not one of them. I think the Palins were "surprised" that Bristol got pregnant so soon after the birth of Trig.
And I think the existence of those two hunting and fishing cabins is very interesting. Perfect place to hide Bristol both around the time of Trig's birth and pre-Tripp's real birth early in 2009. How else did they prevent ANYONE from seeing that girl until she showed up in Fairbanks with a fuzzily-aged baby?
Answers to all questions posed of SFR related to the adoption process:
"This adoption was a private arrangement with a birth mother who wishes her identity to remain confidential, for her benefit and the baby's. We will do everything in our power to enforce that desire and hope that everyone will observe her and our right to privacy in this matter."
To the extent that questions are raised (unlikely) about the Palin's fitness, she's a Governor with four children already and sufficient money.
With respect to completing her duties as Governor with an adoptive special-needs child, for anyone who takes that seriously when she had a 80% approval, at most it might cost her a few points. She might even pick up some support for her act of generosity.
So are you suggesting that it is wiser to risk it all of a faked pregnancy that face a few questions and sideways glances with little political damage, if any? I don't think so.
Faking is always a last resort. Hide-and-adopt is a better strategy, if you can get away with it.
If Bristol had already given birth, adoption as an explanation for the infant always works much better. Someone would only hide-and-fake if hide-and-adopt wouldn't work. Political motives are rational, highly rational, and nobody would risk the political downside of a failed hide-and-fake if hide-and-adopt were still an option. You only go to hide-and-fake while the birth-mother is still pregnant but there could be some suspicions and you need a convincing alternate explanation for the infant's arrival.
The SP-is-Trig's-mother acceptors -- such as Craig -- can rely on this logic to maintain a high level of doubt, even against the weight of evidence that SP was never pregnant. If Bristol had quietly already given birth in February, they would no longer have to perform a convincing alternative. I should also point out that Bristol and Levi were already engaged for all practical purposes in April of 2008. Why hide the baby then if Bristol and Levi, the presumptive parents, were already going to get married? Where's the huge scandal?
Willow, on the other hand, would create a larger problem, especially if the circumstances were not very good.
Dangerous
LisaTx
Thanks for your comment. A background check into Britta Hanson suggests that her parents are not Brad and Carolyn Hanson.
Britta could be more distantly related to Brad and Carolyn but I have no evidence for that.
Kathleen
I have never fully bought into the notion that the green Bristol baby bump pic was really from 2006.
Look at this picture of Piper on the ADN site taken on 11/6/2006.
http://tinyurl.com/c5jd4v
It is picture #26.
Piper looks very young in this picture. Does she look older, younger or the same as on the baby bump 2006 or 2007 picture? If she looks much younger then the green bump has to be bumped back up to 2007.
"I have been around the adoption community for a long time, and I can tell you that every time a celebrity or politician adopts, it gets brought up on the adoption forums, and there are always comments "
You bring up a good point, which I hadn't thought of- I know little about adoption. I think that if Sarah had taken advice on the situation, she would have considered the possibility of questioning, but I doubt if she would have thought of it on her own. I do not have the impression that she is adept at reasoning from point A to B to C.
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