Thursday, July 23, 2009

A tale of two birth certificates

It’s 5:30 in the afternoon and I’m sitting here watching MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews. The topic – for the third day in a row: Barack Obama’s birth certificate, and whether or not it is genuine.

It wouldn’t surprise me if I flipped over to another one of the networks and find they are covering the same story. They were yesterday. FOX had it. CNN had it. Lou Dobbs was practically salivating. This "issue" - which has been floating around now for nearly two years - is suddenly more popular than swine flu.

Was Barack Obama born in the United States? Inquiring minds want to know. And even though commentators insist that this is nothing more than a theory kept alive by some persistent bloggers, they continue to respond to the people who’ve refused to let it go.

And I’m wondering how these bloggers got so lucky. Maybe their blogs are more stylish or they have snazzier widgets. Maybe their blogs play music or something. Frankly, I don't know.

After all, we’ve been working on a conspiracy theory of our own here at Palin Deceptions.

When questions were posed to Obama, he said, “Here, look at my birth certificate. This proves I’m not lying.” When questions were posed to Palin, she said, “Here, look at my knocked up unwed teenage daughter. This proves I’m not lying.”

Factcheck.org has verified that Obama’s birth certificate is genuine. The Honolulu Advertiser birth announcement, placed nine days after Obama's birth, has also passed muster. Obama traveled abroad as a young child, and had to get an American passport at an early age. Was his birth certificate already "fake" then? This seems extremely implausible. 

Regardless, whatever the truth, the "deception" would have had to have happened nearly fifty years ago and the principal players, (mother, father, doctor) are now all dead. IF - and I am saying IF - there was some irregularities with Obama's birth, he certainly had nothing to do with it.

Sarah Palin, on the other hand, refused to produce a birth certificate for Trig, a child supposedly born a scant four and 1/2 months prior to her V.P nomination nod, still as of this writing less than a year and a half ago. Her doctor, very much alive and kicking, would not give a simple press conference when the rumor reached crescendo level on August 31. Even the birth announcement Palin sent out had no date of birth. Has anyone else here ever seen a birth announcement without a date? I haven’t.

Palin has been far less forthcoming with information. Her main defenses have been two: "Bristol can't be Trig's Mom so that means I have to be" AND "I shouldn't have to answer that question."

And let’s not kid ourselves. She got close to power. Very close, thanks to the GOP. If she lied to her constituents about her pregnancy then that’s nearly as significant as what Obama’s critics are trying to pin on him.

As one of our researchers pointed out today, she can lay her hands on her child’s birth certificate at any given moment if she needs to. Any birthmother can. Showing Trig’s, while not providing absolute proof (see our previous post on Alaska birth certificates and adoption) could potentially at least verify that he was born on the date that has been claimed. They have not even done that.

Why? And why isn’t the same media that now exploring the truth behind Obama’s birth exploring the truth behind Trig’s?

Yes, Obama is president. But if McCain had won, Palin would have been just one malignant melanoma away from the same office.

Those of you who have followed this blog know the amount of evidence we’ve amassed. In light of the renewed interest in the Obama birth story some of you have expressed the same frustrations and have wondered aloud how the media can give so much airtime to one story while ignoring another.

I wish I had an answer for you but I don’t. I’m as baffled as you are. And all we can do is continue to ask the questions the media won’t.

77 comments:

Redhead said...

Here is why...

Barack Obama holds office...
Trig Palin does not...

Lawsuits have been filed against Obama about his BC...
No lawsuits have been filed against Palin.

Other office holders(people with power) have accused Obama. They are actually writing bills about this issue making news...
No one with power or office holder has accused Palin of faking her pregnancy, only bloggers...

This is why Obamas BC has made news and Palins pregnancy has not. Legal reasons, you will need to find a legal way to make her answer your questions publicly. File an ethics complaint for fraud against Alaskans, you have the proof to present. You have one day left to do it. Once she is out of office, you wont be able to do anything. You have to make news, not wait for it happen.

jeanette said...

I think the reason the MSM is covering the Obama birth place story yet again is that there was a filmed forum with an elected official where a seemingly not so sane woman got up and yelled about the issue waving paper to much applause from a group that was likely in on the staged event. Then someone started saying the Pledge of Allegiance, which made everyone stand up looking as though the whole audience agreed with he ramblings.

It was that visual that got the first news program to cover it, and then of course they all had to. I don’t think there will be coverage about Trig’s birth unless some filmed visual like that happens and even then they may not touch it because Sarah and her followers would mount a full blown assault on them for attacking a defenseless child even though that is not the case.

So I don’t know what it will take other than Trig’s mother or someone who knows the true story stepping forward. Evidence that Sarah had her tubes tied after Piper would suffice, but even if that is a fact, HIPPA will prevent it from coming to light.

midnightcajun said...

It isn't just bloggers keeping questions about Obama's birth alive; it's also members of Congress, news commentators on CNN and Fox, and Darth Vader--oops--Cheney's daughter.

It has nothing to do with Obama's birth and everything to do with the fact that these twisted, hate-filled racists cannot accept the reality that a black man has become their president. When Bush was in office, they raised the PROTUS to the level of a Roman god-emperor. And now he's been succeeded by a black man? Impossible. Hence the need to prove that Obama really couldn't have, shouldn't have won.

Because Sarah was the overt face of racism ("he's not a real American like you and me") during the campaign, those in denial have coalesced around her. Spend any time on TS or C4pee and you'll soon realize they hate Obama as much as they love Sarah. She's so... fecundedly white. They believe she's going to save them from this black man.

Ironically, the Obama birthers have made our job that much harder--one reason I think we should lay off calls for a birth certificate! It makes us sound like them.

The thing that puzzles me about all this is, I am not sure that even if Obama had been born in Kenya it would make a difference. You see, I am an American woman who gave birth overseas to a child fathered by a non-American. When I was at the embassy getting her "certification of the birth of an American abroad" (she also has another birth certificate, issued by the country she was born in), I asked the State Department guy, "Does this mean she can never be president of the United States?" And he said, "That's not real clear. It depends on how you define 'native born.' As far as we're concerned, she was born an American citizen." He slid the certificate across the desk to me and added, "Otherwise you wouldn't be getting this."

Headtrip Honey said...

I made a blog post about the birther conspiracy and briefly mentioned this blog:

http://headtrip-honey.blogspot.com

Enjoy!

mlewis said...

I'm going to take a minute and get really serious here. Some time ago, when Randi Rhodes was on Air America, she explained why some stories never make it to the MSM and others are covered non stop.

Corporate American runs the large TV stations, where most of the noise is heard. It has been the practice of the conservative side of politics to threaten a major TV station to withhold millions of dollars of advertising if they run such-and-so kind of story.

They use strong arm and bullying tactics to get their own stories aired. An example is how the Swift Boaters were able to drive an untruthful story against John Kerry in a previous election. By the same token, when a major network was going to air a warts-and-all story about Ronald Reagan, out came the big money advertisers, threatening to pull their advertising revenue, and the story was sidelined to cable where it wouldn't get the same audience.

Despite any kind of proof at all, the Birthers (the ones who dispute Obama's birth certificate) manage to get their story out there. No proof that an 18 year old girl from Kansas was in Kenya giving birth. No records of Baby Obama being brought to the US. Nothing but smoke and mirrors. It's a crime that such a vocal minority has such a loud voice.

Fortunately, as the alternate media grows and bloggers become the new investigative reporters, more accurate information is coming out, too. A recently published book devotes a whole chapter to the Alaskan bloggers who vetted Sarah Palin more thoroughly than the McCain group did.

I feel very strongly that Audrey's work will eventually be recognized. It is factual; there are verifiable photographs that show a non-pregnant Sarah Palin in early 2008 when she was supposed to be expecting her fifth child.

A suggestion to Audrey: I read that an author, Geoffrey Dunn (a regular contributor to HuffPo) is writing a tell-all book about Sarah Palin, due to come out in 2010. Please consider putting together a complete file with the calendar, photos and other proof, and ask him to consider your material for his book. Maybe that will be the crack in the door that we're looking for. Good Luck! and Keep up the Great Work!

Hammer and a Feather said...

Audrey ~

Perhaps the reason for the current cold babygate climate is priority.

Maybe, once BTQ$ is politically deposed, MSM and the other bloggers on the bus will NEED the babygate topic to maintain interest.

[snicker] Time is not babygate's friend as far as making the issue go away.

Tina

Elizabeth said...

http://washingtonindependent.com/49104/pat-boone-joins-the-birthers

Many...notably the United States Justice Foundation, have surmised that baby Obama’s mother, about to have her child in Kenya, had booked a flight to Hawaii but was prohibited from flying because delivery was so imminent. But soon after baby Barack was born, USJF theorizes she flew with him to Oahu and obtained some kind of “record of birth” as if he’d been born there.

Air Kenya being more careful about these things than Air Alaska was.

kaykay said...

Whether or not Palin has to surrender Yahoo emails to Tennessee judge, and the TIMING of it (day after her resignation) is of great interest also.

Here's an intriguing part of the request:

Any "voluntary disclosure of e-mail addresses of family members, pictures of Gov. Palin's family, cell phone numbers of family members, dates of birth of Gov. Palin and members of her family and/or the address book for the Yahoo! e-mail account" at issue in the case.

Here's a link to complete article.

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2009/jul/17/long-list-of-palin-records-sought/

midnightcajun said...

Elizabeth quotes a crazy theory from http://washingtonindependent.com/49104/pat-boone-joins-the-birthers that "[Obama's mother] flew with him to Oahu and obtained some kind of “record of birth” as if he’d been born there."

Jeez. Why do journalists allow this kind of crap into print? She would have needed Obama's birth certificate--either one issued by Kenya or one issued by the US embassy in Kenya--to get a passport to fly with him to the US (I know--I flew overseas with my daughter when she was 6 weeks). Apart from which, states don't just issue "some kind of record of birth as if he'd been born there." I had to jump through all kinds of ridiculous hoops to get my daughter's certificate of birth of an American citizen abroad--proof of all previous marriages and divorces, proof I'd lived in the States for five years continuously (try PROVING that!), etc, etc. If a child is born overseas, the procedure is very complicated. Especially 47 years ago, before legislation was passed to facilitate bringing back Amerasian children from Vietnam.

It's about time people started calling this rumor what it is--racist and xenophobic. The press is so ready to characterize any kind of criticism of $arah as an "attack" motivated by the fact she's a woman, or from a small town, or a mother, or a Christian, or whatever.

I'll shut up now.

CliffK said...

You simply cannot compare the two issues and it sounds like whining if you do.

Obama is President - proof that he was foreign-born would (could?) disqualify him from the post. This is about him, not his child.

Even if all your theories are correct and Sarah is lying about Trig, none of that would disqualify her legally from the post she was running for. Morally, ethically, yes, it might have taken votes away, but politicians lie to us all the time, and that does not disqualify them from their positions unless they do so in under oath.

That is a fundamental and substantial difference in the two birth certificate stories.

I suspect the MSM stays away from this story out of deference to the privacy rights of the child, and the traditional stance that adoption records are kept secret. Sarah steps over the line by using the kids as a campaign prop, but the overriding principle that guides the media is that Trig himself is out of bounds. Similarly, a guiding principle of investigating this story should be somehow proving that Sarah has lied about her pregnancy rather than determining who the real birth mother is. Trampling on the privacy rights of the birth mother, particularly if that person was underage, would put this campaign in an unfavorable light.

Whoa, Baby! said...

Another thing to consider about Trig's birth certificate is that if he is adopted by Sarah and Todd, it will have their names as parents. At least that is how it is in my state. Is it the same in Alaska? If so, then it makes no sense to keep the certificate a secret except as a, "You can't make me," move.

wayofpeace said...

from the get go, i've always thought that a book would be the best venue to expose BABYGATE.

a case in point is the JFK-murder conspiracy, which is one subject the MSM to this day refuses to admit, and still promotes the lone-gunman/magic-bullet theory as the only explanation.

the only alternative and well-researched explanations have come from concerned citizens, who were not satisfied with those simplistic conclusions and began to dig deeper, like MARK LANE's RUSH TO JUDGMENT published in 1966.

Morgan said...

CliffK,

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. It's true that Obama is president. But had the GOP prevailed in November, Sarah Palin would have been the second most powerful person in the free world.

Many people were concerned over the lack of vetting that took place when she was selected. Palin proved herself to be an intellectual and political embarrassment with a appeal that never extended beyond the Christian right wing base. But she was ambitious, and parlayed that into a spot on the ticket.

But did that ambition lead her to lie about a fifth pregnancy? Did she lie to her constituents about giving birth to a special needs child, both to cover up for her daughter's pregnancy and/or to make herself the darling of a pro-life movement? Did she charge her state insurance for a birth that never happened? Did she enlist a physician to release a statement to the American people that wasn't true? Did the McCain campaign ever find out about the deceit?

Something happened during the campaign - something that cooled McCain's opinion of his running mate to the point that it was reported they'd stop talking. He refused to endorse her after the election as a potential hopeful in 2012. Why, when just a few months earlier he'd sold her as qualified? I think he knew. I think he knew and couldn't say anything for fear of destroying himself along with her.

This is relevant because if Palin lied it would not only raise serious issues about the vetting process of the GOP, but the power brokers that used her to rally the base. I believe it would shake the underpinnings of the GOP to its religious core.

For that reason alone, I think the story is relevant.

I also think that's why the media won't touch it. The media - like it or not - is predisposed to Obama. Even as a moderate I recognize that. I think the media wants Palin to run in 2012. If she does, I believe Babygate will emerge as the October surprise that destroys her just before Obama is ushered in for a second term.

The media knows. I'd be willing to bet all I own. But they're sitting on the information for reasons of their own.

mel said...

CliffK: "You simply cannot compare the two issues and it sounds like whining if you do.

Obama is President - proof that he was foreign-born would (could?) disqualify him from the post. This is about him, not his child."

This site is about SP, not her child. The photoshopped pix of SP and Trig were about SP, not her child. Disgust at her use of Trig as a political prop is about SP, not her child. Resentment that she is taken as some sort of expert on special needs children is about SP, not her child. Amazement that she believes there should be more not fewer special needs children is about SP, not her child. Anger at her lies about Trig's birth is about her, not Trig. If she runs for office again, and the birth lies come to the foreground, as they most assuredly will, the issue will be about SP, not Trig.

wayofpeace said...

OT.... let's see if SP means what she says about playing a bigger role in a much larger stage.

senators BOXER and KERRY have asked her to a debate:

WAPO: "We respectfully invite Gov. Palin to join that reality-based debate -- one that relies on facts, science, tested economics and steely-eyed national security interests.

"Our country needs nothing less, and our planet depends on it."

...

which is never going to happened in a million years. so, is she gonna claim they are just picking on her?

leu2500 said...

Whoah, Baby - Audrey had a post awhile back on this. When a child is adopted, there are 2 pieces of info that aren't changed on the birth certificate - date of birth & place of birth. It is Audrey's belief that Sarah can't show Trig's birth cert. because one or both of these pieces of info do not support the "official' story of Trig's birth.

CliffK said...

I don't disagree with anything you folks are saying about why this story is important. In fact, I do believe that that baby cannot be hers and agree that the GOP is tripping overitself in its rush to stupidity. (Said as a former Republican.)

My earlier post was not to dispute any of that, rather I was merely trying to make the point that the two different birth certificate stories are very different in matters of substance and legality, and I think it diminishes this story to compare the two. I know that "whining" is a charged word and I did not mean to offend, but i'm afraid that that is how this argument will be perceived by others. My analogy is to kids saying "It's not fair!" No, it's not fair, but that's the way it is.

I do wish you good luck in getting the truth exposed here. Can't wait for Levi's book to come out...

NakedTruth said...

O.K. here are my thoughts. I agree with many of the comments here that because of the lawsuits filed against Obama and the fact that he is POTUS and could be disqualified if he is not a citizen are the main reasons that the MSM is so interested in this silly racist birther movement.

Also we must keep in mind that Democrats and Independents fight with swords whereas Republicans fight with guns. We are just not as hateful, racist and deceitful as many Republicans. They are forever on the attack and will do whatever it takes to get their way- lie, steal, cheat, corrupt, invade, kill, destroy, etc.

Now that Palin has resigned as Governor, I think that she will probably look to contribute more to the Pro-Life platform. Remember her speech at the Pro-Life rally a few months ago in Indian? Wouldn't it have been nice if a Pro-Choice platform could have countered those lies she told in her speech through the MSM? A Pro-Choice platform is the perfect arena to expose babygate in my opinion. Sarah considering abortion and 'the wild ride' shows the true hypocrisy of the Pro-Life movement. They want to have a choice but don't want you and me to have one.

We need to put our Republican thinking caps on and ask ourselves what would they do to expose Sarah's deceptions? I would bet you that if babygate was the deception of a Democratic candidate or official it would have already been exposed. We need to put down the swords and get out our guns for this fight. It's going to be a real battle.

Rogue said...

Just for grins, let's suppose the birthers manage to oust Obama for not being President. Do they somehow think this will magically put a Republican in the White House? No, we'd just have President Biden and a new VP TBD. And for some reason, I think even most Republicans would prefer President Obama to President Biden.

Gitana said...

Would the so-called birthers be making the same protests about proving citizenship if McCain had won? I don't think so.

During the Republican primaries in 2008, legal analysts differed over whether or not McCain, born in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936, could qualify as a "natural born" citizen. Even those who felt that children born to military personnel on active duty outside the US SHOULD have natural-born-status expressed concern that current law didn't necessarily guarantee this status. A similar question was raised about Barry Goldwater who was born in Arizona territory before it was admitted as a state.

This fake debate isn't about who is president, but about racists whose slogan is "we want our country back."

The same media that gave the "tea parties" favorable coverage (making the rallies appear bigger than they really were) are same ones treating this as an authentic "controversy." The point is to paint the president as "unAmerican."

Two stories on McCain's status:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3460276.ece

mlewis said...

HuffPo has a long article about the civil rights group, Southern Poverty Law Center's letter to John Klein, President of CNN, asking him to remove Lou Dobbs for continuing the Obama-is-not-a-citizen business. Below is the last paragraph from that article which explains why people can no longer see the original Obama birth certificate:

In part, Klein writes, "It seems this story is dead- because anyone who still is not convinced doesn't really have a legitimate beef." Klein asked CNN researchers to dig into the question of why Obama couldn't produce the original birth certificate. The researchers contacted the Hawaii Health Dept. and confirmed that paper documents were discarded in 2001 when the department went paperless. That reportedly includes Pres. Obama's original birth certificate.

In spite of this announcement from the President of CNN, I am willing to bet that dozens of those right fringe loonies will continue the meme. It's not that they believe it. They know that #1 it still attracts media attention and #2 it rallies the far right wing people that they need to keep rallied and ginned up for their cause.

(My husband calls it the ca-ca-do-do style of publicity, namely saying the most outrageous thing because it gets attention. By focusing on a birth certificate with this president, they can imply all kinds of under current issues that decent people would not talk about).

Palin is very skilled at not answering the press. Over and over she promised to release her medical records. We know what a pathetic piece of paper was dropped 12 hours before the election. Her response was that she had complied, and that was the end of it. She has not be held accountable for anything for quite a while. She's good at dodging the truth by offering an alternate statement. She is the one who said that she had been exonerated in Troopergate when the Legislature found exactly the opposite. They may fall for it in Alaska, but fortunately enough people in the lower 48 don't believe her.

wayofpeace said...

another venue for exposure would be a well-produced YOUTUBE video. just notice the latest craze: the WEDDING MARCH DANCE. it went viral in hours!

the best thing about video is that A PICTURE IS WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS. and the composite ones done by many here, would do the trick.

lets commission professionals like PATRICK and KATHLEEN to do one ;-}

Redhead said...

Again,

You must make the news if you want to be heard! Plain and simple, if you simply wait for them to notice it will never happen. You must stage a protest, buy billboard space on major highways in Alaska.

Make the News!!!!

You don't have much time left!!!

Punkinbugg said...

I came across this verse the other day... Feel free to whip it out next time you run across a rabid Republican:

"Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you." Hebrews 13:17

You see, Christians know they are supposed to pray for and obey their President. (period)

Unless.... they can somehow prove he isn't supposed to be President in the first place.

They call it the Birther Movement.

I call it treason.

Isn't that against the law?

Debbie said...

@midnightcajun
I was born in Germany to my German mother and American father 48 years ago. I have my German birth certificate, and a document that I believe is titled "Report of an American Citizen Born Abroad" that has a raised seal. Sorry, I haven't looked at it in a few years, and it is in the safe.

By the way, I was told I could not be president, and my brother was not able to get a top secret clearance in the Air Force because our mother was German (he WAS born in America).

Morgan said...

**MODERATOR NOTE**

Punkinbugg, as much as I loathe to take out my thigh-hi leather moderator boots and whip, your comment forces me to do so.

Please, please, please, don't broad-brush all Christians. We have readers of all faiths here and they don't all think alike.

I believe your statement could apply to some narrow fundamentalists, but *only* if one of their own is in the white house.

Let's avoid generalizations, shall we?

sg said...

The Obama birthers are operating under a flawed assumption: namely, that some "magical" evidence can somehow automatically "disqualify" President Obama from being POTUS.

That is nonsense. Federal courts have ruled on several occasions (and not just in connection with Obama) that no individual has standing to challenge the qualifications of a presidential candidate.

Furthermore, now that the US Congress has certified the election of Barack Obama as president, it is simply beyond the reach of any court to challenge that situation. I suppose if some suspicious evidence were to be produced (highly, highly unlikely), there would always be the political remedy of impeachment and removal from office. But who could imagine a Democratic Congress doing that?

In short, the Obama birthers are barking at the moon. I can understand why Lou Dobbs is pushing it, since his audience is comprised of anti-immigration xenophobes. (Yet I read today that the president of CNN is now telling him to cut it out.) But why is Chris Matthews spending any time on it? I know Hardball's ratings aren't very good. But really!

ron m said...

Your analysis, as always is right on, except you mention in the "regardless" paragraph that even 'IF" the birth was elsewhere it is not Obama's fault.
This would not be a defense should it be shown that he was born elsewhere, which even McCain has agreed that certainly did not seem to be the case & supposedly his team did research this issue, had they shown otherwise he unfortunately could be the President. As you will recall there were questions about McCain's birthplace , I believe it was Panama , but since his father was in the service at the time & I believe married to a USA citizen the location of the birth is not relevant.
The question with Obama appears to be that he may have been born outside of the USA, which includes Hawaii (some people seem to believe that it was not a state at that time) and thus cannot be a USA citizen.
They quote the Constitution which is a bit sketchy when the mother is a citizen giving birth outside of the USA. That is a false argument since either parent, if a USA citizen, can declare the child's citizenship and if not declaring another country the child is clearly USA. Problems could arise where dual citizenship is argued or the father creates issues on citizenship, nothing has come forth to indicate such a scenario.
The father had opportunity to assert Obama's citizenship before he passed on and we have nothing on the record suggesting that was addressed one way or the other.

Keep up the good work, hopefully it will not have to be for much longer on this mission.

NakedTruth said...

Redhead said:

"You must make the news if you want to be heard! Plain and simple, if you simply wait for them to notice it will never happen. You must stage a protest, buy billboard space on major highways in Alaska.

Make the News!!!!"

Now you are thinking like a Republican, my dear!!!! I agree we must make the news. A Billboard is a perfect idea. Could you image a billboard with a picture of Palin 7 months pregnant next to a woman with the same body frame 7 months pregnant too? It could have a caption that states something like "Can you believe that both of these women are 7 months pregnant? or Who's pregnant and who's not?"

Also wouldn't be a bad idea to show the non-showing Palin in mid-March/late-April to the really pregnant Palin in the Gusty picture (include the date of the pictures) with a caption that reads something "Wow, how much we grew in just 2-weeks!"

Now this will capture the MSM's attention. They love stuff like this. We could strategically place the billboards in areas near major media offices. Just sayin...we've got to beat them at their own game.

mel said...

Ron m: "The question with Obama appears to be that he may have been born outside of the USA, which includes Hawaii (some people seem to believe that it was not a state at that time) and thus cannot be a USA citizen."

But it WAS a state at the time. So why are you even treating the argument like it has any validity?

"The father had opportunity to assert Obama's citizenship before he passed on and we have nothing on the record suggesting that was addressed one way or the other."

And why, exactly, would the father's assertion of BO's citizenship be of any relevance whatsoever to "the record"?? And who is "we" in "we have nothing"? You mean ignorant racists who are twitching in the throes of change and fear and reacting treasonously? I'm not saying you are one, but really, this is a major sickness going around and I've about had it with anyone who doesn't decry "birthers."

Bottom line: Sarah Palin lied about her pregnancy. BO and the STATE of Hawaii did not lie about his birth. BO gets hounded by freaks, SP gets a pass from rational people. Maybe the comparison doesn't work on any other level, but that's enough for me.

i feel like a wicked scold today but come on!!!

Floyd M. Orr said...

I would like to address a comment made by Morgan, one of the bloggers for whom I have the greatest respect. I do not think the MSM is favorable to Obama, at least not in any overtly problematic manner. What I do think is that the MSM sees Palin as the ultimate cash cow, at least until the Repubs come up with a candidate that all of those on the red team feel can really win. At that point, the MSM will miraculously discover everything that they already know, just as Morgan has stated.

Once there is a Repub candidate who seems to be consistently stronger than Palin, she is toast will all of them. Until that time, they are going to ride her like Seabiscuit. These are people who will do absolutely anything to control all the power and all the money. They have no scruples whatsoever, and this is at the heart of the changes that have occurred within the Repub party over the past forty years. Palin is the just the ultimate candidate for those whose entire lives revolve around greed, power, racism, and the disenfranchising of those Americans who do not share these same goals.

The goal of the MSM is to make money and do nothing else. The TV newscasters and opinion makers of today make far too much of it, and that is exactly what is facilitating all this Palin madness. It is not so much that they actually want such a vicious boob in The White House; it's that they want to make as much easy money off her divisiveness as they can. I would guess that the more honorable ones of them are telling themselves that the public would never actually vote her in, so they can rationalize the cash they are raking in and put the whole thing out of their little minds. I don't want to even think about whatever the less honorable ones are thinking! It's already a scary enough realization that 77% of the voters in my county voted for that abomination!

Silvergirl said...

I think a youtube video is a terrific idea. Just put the photos from this blog together to state your case with some appropriate song playing in the background. It's cheaper than a billboard, and bound to get more attention.

I think the right wingers are having a hard time accepting Obama as their leader. It makes me sad, and angry, but what can you do?

They will just have to get used to it and bear it for the next 7 1/2 years. :D

Punkinbugg said...

"We've got to beat them at their own game."

Amen. Plan to.

BTW, I should have said "Right-wing, fundamentalist Christians" are advised to pray for their leaders. Trust me, they are.

Or were... when Bush was in office.

But now? Notsa much.

onething said...

So Hawaii destroyed paper records...but doesn't Obama himself have a copy of his own birth certificate?

I personally don't care if he was born in Kenya, because I think the purpose of the law was thought of before the time of air travel, when a newborn might spend a couple of weeks abroad but be born of American parent(s) and raised here.

See the difference in Schwarzenegger - he lived in Germany until the age of 8, spoke German as his first language and his parents are Germans. He speaks English with a strong accent.

I also find it very counterintuitive that an 18 year old would want to fly all the way to Africa to give birth. Most people would far rather stay home for that.

I watched a utube video, supposedly of Obama's grandmother proudly saying that Obama was a "native son of this village." They made much of the linguistic roots of the word native and how it relates to natal which relates to birth and so on. The fact is, calling him a native son does not mean any such thing! It just means the Kenyans are really proud of him.

More Cowbell said...

I'd contribute money to make a Youtube video of Palin's "pregnancy" photos possible! But as interesting as this subject is, I'm afraid it'll never be as catchy as that Minnesota wedding video!

Joe Christmas said...

Audrey, do not despair or be discouraged. For the length of this journey we knew it would be convoluted and time-indefinite. Yet the inveracity of Spalin will be exposed as sure as Todd didn 't build that house. Her web of deceit has defects and it may be here where it unravels. We have all done the right thing, we should all feel enobled, regardless of the endgame.

As I mentioned to Dangerous last week, Dangerous,
It's simple really, just google Trig's birth certificate...nothing, nada, just the usual blanks... then google Obama's...and, surprise, there it is.
Limbaugh tells this lame joke about what God and Obama have in common, (I add Trig too), UHHH NO birth certificate....crickets.

Again, an early observation ... don't let absurdity cloud reasoning.

keep it comin'

Joe Christmas

Eileen said...

Her last official hurrah as Alaskan elected official:see live on tv: www.ktuu.com, Ch.2Anchorage. Otherwise, web live 2:45 pm AK time Sunday from Fairbanks
(4 hrs diff. East)
Might need Silverlight or such to view web stream.

Sarah gives Farewell speech 7/26.(Only work she has done for AK basically since Sept.2008 so deduct ELEVEN months from the days she has had as a "experienced" Governor's and actually on the job)

Terminator Gov basically called her a quitter in interview. Ya just don't toss in the towel when the going gets tough-ya use it to mop up the sweat and put nose on grindstone.She rather put her hand in the easy money bag from future lower 48 speeches.
KTUU TV also aired all week a Wild Ride series and the interviews and videos are online.

All the comments here are correct in their own way.There is enough similiarities and media hyprocrisy to go around.
I think Sarah unwittingly created her own niche loophole with her messy tangled life resulting from how she- on the surface- multi-tasks I guess..
Gotta be tough for anyone to take on all her levels of controversies....of who is your mama?(Trig will never be able to investigate that one himself),messy teen involvements,details of whose birth experiences, treatment of infant and one with Special Needs during grueling campaign on the road,accusations of sexism in media treatment, taking on the conservative version of a "Celebrity Candidate" aka a hot right wing PinUp girl ready to be posted on any locker for those so gunho who don't want to question the Military Industrial Congressional Complex.

Yupp-she presents the whole barrel of unique and thorny worms.
Reminds me of the flesh eating things crawling over whole green fish you catch and store in the cold Fall and then it rots in the warm sun of Spring and ya gotta still cook it in the dog pot and feed it to the dog team as ice still on Yukon, no barge or fish wheel fresh salmon until June.

And then Sunny Sarah flys in bearing a plate of homemade cookies to alleviate the ailments facing your village. Hah! Bear Up Lower 48, It Is really your turn now to host her and gang of backwaters kin.

Take cheer, when she is out of office here- and I doubt she will ever be elected to another office in Alaska AGAIN due to this early resigning (there are plenty of better reasons)-then the wired tight jaw syndrome that has afflicted so many good Alaskans will loosen.

I believe facts and proof-photos, personal anecdotes- will be revealed by those who have waited for Miss Isn't Really A Team Player to have the vindictive reins of power out of her mitts. Maybe she will relocate as well, the better to meet-cha all down there.

As an Alaskan, I want Parnell to personally escort all those Wasilla High School Palin crony graduates back to the valley mall strips of Wasilla. Away from the folks in Juneau and Anchorage who do have allegience to all the citizens of Alaska versus Queen Sarah. Now if we can keep the AK.Republican corrupt jail birds from coming back to power too, via appeals!

This saga is educating my tweens in unexpected ways-they saw a ABCfamily movie called Labor Pains with L.Lohan and could understand now how Palin got away with he six week birth drama cover-up.

jeanette said...

There will be lots of national press in Alaska on Sunday, perhaps for the last time for a while. Anyone up for passing around some flyers? After the Gutsy picture you could have the quote that read something about Sarah being able to get on the plane back from Texas because she wasn't showing that much.

wayofpeace said...

re SP's damaged pysche:

DR SCHWARTZ: So Sarah leaves me quite breathless.

She is grandiose, high maintenance and extremely selfish and therefore deluded about her qualifications.

She is used to charming the socks off of most people (and especially men), and she has a certain contempt for everyone as a result of getting away with it a lot of the time. Her speech about "Not being a quitter" just because she was deserting the governor's office in mid-term, was a miracle of contempt for her audience.

Her desire to stay on the road and in the spotlight without consideration for her large young family, a special needs baby and a teenage mother of her grandchild, is ambition without the slightest nod to other's needs.

She is as ruthlessly self-indulgent and narcissistic as any man ever born. She reconfigures my previous thinking about gender and narcissism.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/pepperschwartz/archives/174396.asp

wayofpeace said...

from a NYT's OP ED by an ALASKAN:

In short, Alaska had a governor who had the stature within the state, nationally and internationally, to deal with our problems. She could have used her position to find solutions to the high costs and financial insecurities of our far-northern state.

Instead, she abandoned her role as the state’s leader in midstream, making her the only governor in our state’s history to "qivit" [to QUIT in INUIT] in the true sense of the word, at a time when we need strong leadership. Good luck, Governor Parnell — may the great Arctic spirits be with you.

–William L. Iggiagruk Hensley

Lilybart said...

Here is question: Why does Levi travel with bodyguards? Today in the NYPost gossip page it mentions that he had TWO bodyguards at the Monkey Bar in NYC. They ask, who is he afraid of?

I would ask, what does he know that makes him so valuable? Rex Butler must be paying for all of this but why? What does he have to sell that makes it worthwhile to basically support and protect Levi?? Of course we all know what I hope he knows, but it is something to keep an eye on.

preston said...

I know extremely well one of the most conservative, out-there bloggers and he's been on the Obama birth certificate case from the beginning. Knowing his personality and political agenda, he will never let go of the issue because 1)he never admits he's wrong and 2) he hates Obama with a vengeance and loves Palin's religious, conservative agenda.

I've concluded through knowing this person that many of the more visible conservative, Evangelical right who follow Palin will do anything to regain their power in politics. If they wanted to go after Palin they would. Bottom line, they like Palin and what she stands for. If they share this blogger's agenda, they can't stand Obama and would love to end his political career.

Jen said...

onething: I don't know if the paper records being destroyed is a rumor or fact, but if paper records were destroyed, they would be the singular documents that doctors signed. The birth certificates Obama and most of us have access to are state certified documents that says the initial, doctor-signed documents were turned into to the state. The document that has been released for the public to see is a state document that says all proper paperwork was filed at the time of his birth. Therefore, even if his initial document was destroyed, the state confirms that it was received. It SHOULD be the end of the story but the birthers won't believe he was born here until they can get in a Delorean and go back in time, barge into the delivery room and watch his mom give birth.

FYI, Arnold Schwarzenegger was born in Austria. Just a clarification.

Jen

Bretta said...

I agree with all of your points, Audrey. I also can present a notarized copy of my children's birth certificates at a moment's notice; all three have passports. We have traveled outside of the USA. No family member would have difficulty finding our birth certificates and photos of my pregnancies and their birth days. OOps, singing to the choir, again.

It's watching of the rabid outrage, the insanity of the 'Birthers' that shocks me.

Are we, in the USA, that deeply racist? *That Hurts.*

Bretta said...

Lilybart, re: Levi + bodyguards.

$P's reputation for vengeance is deep and wide and ancient.

I watched Levi's body language on Larry King with an investigator's eye - he has a story to tell; one that $P would like to not have told, I'm sure.

Bretta said...

Just a twisted thought:

What if the Birthers, not able to reconcile all of the $P peccadilloes, are turning their concerns inside out to point the finger at 'the opposite?'

President O is everything $P is not: a good parent, honest, intellectually developed, capable, productive, fair-minded, willing to learn from a teachable moment, and, dare-I-say-it, not vain.

Any psche-specialists willing to examine this?

The collective subconscious often speaks to the truth; is it possible her rabid followers find [subconsciously] she is too friable on too many fronts to sustain their hopes and dreams?

What do you think?

Leah said...

Morgan: Can we get a picture of you in your "thigh-hi leather . . . boots and whip"?

Amy1 said...

Lilybart: an excellent question: why a bodyguard for Levi? Why TWO?

My first thought, way back when: to help him keep his mouth shut. But Levi seems to be doing fine with that, except for his measured, choreographed quotes. Good job, Mr Butler & Associates! Good job, Levi.

My second thought, and one I've had all along during this long saga: SP does not exist in isolation. She did not rise on her own into the VP spotlight. She has been protected from MSM exposure of her all-too-obvious liabilities all along, including the one we are thinking about here on his blog.

Deep-pockets, deep-power, religious-right, and ultra-conservative sponsors find it useful to promote/protect her, and will continue to do so, so long as she retains her value to them.

Does the Murdoch plane and boat lurking in AK tell you anything? Does the ridiculously high (okay, as-yet-undisclosed) book advance (from Murdoch-owned HarperCollins and HarperCollins-owned Zondervan) explain it? Does McCain AND his daughter keeping silent explain it? Does Sally Quinn refusing to address babygate? It does to me.

Especially considering the dark forces of racism and anti-intellectualism: isn't it easy to see that some already v wealthy people stand to gain a lot if the pro-SP-type of frenzy can be whipped up again at the right time? Esp if the economy remains poor. Hitler, anyone?

How about this for SP's obvious anxiety and distress as she was delivering her quitting presser: she was told by her forces on high that she has to quit and now do x, y, and z. We have yet to learn what x, y, and z are, exactly. But we will.

SP wanted to play it her way, just like she did in the campaign. It's gotta be hard for her to grasp that she does not call the shots. My guess is that her handlers-on-high (I do not mean God -- I mean almost he opposite, actually!) said "okay, you've messed up and dragged your feet long enough with the AK-gov thingie, you have to quit RIGHT NOW before your pending icebergs besmirch your reputation so much that you will no longer be of use to us, and we will no longer support or fund you, or let you have any publicity glory. Do what we say NOW or we are done with you (and we will let happen whatever criminal charges are about to be initiated against you)."

Yes, I know, I have no proof except all the little clues all around us, just like at the beginning of our search for truth in babygate, when we had nothing but out impressions.

The distressing racism and other -isms in his country are perfect bait for the emerging Hitler to whip up when that moment comes, as I hope it does not.

Amy1 said...

Well, I forgot to add, Levi is the true maverick, the one who stepped out of the script, with the major help of Rex Butler. It would be very much more convenient if he were not in the picture. Therefore the bodyguards.

GenieO said...

I just roared with laughter watching G. Gordon Liddy make a supreme a$$ of himself on Hardball. All the poor guy wants is to see the original BC. That's all I ever hear from these birthers. As a genealogist and historian for 20+ plus years, let me set the terminology and record straight.

I can't speak for all 50 states, but I have researched in more than enough to know the same basic procedure is followed. Please allow for some minor variations in different states.

Vital records are mandated and regulated by individual state laws. The original form filled out by the doctor, midwife, or other birth attendant is called the 'birth return.' Additional info on the birth return that you won't see on a BC might be the name of the birth attendant, any assistants, how many children the mother has birthed, how many are still alive, the occupation of the father, any immediate treatment of the newborn such as silver nitrate in eyes, etc. The birth return is filed with the County Clerk. The County Clerk then has the responsibility to record the birth in county records, prepare a Birth Certificate (a.k.a. Birth Record, Certificate of Live Birth - SAME THING!!) for the parents, and forwards the birth record to the State Health Dept. Sometimes the county keeps the original birth return on file, in storage, and sends the BIRTH RECORD to the state. Sometimes this is reversed. In the 'old days', originally issued birth certificates, and subsequent copies, contained more information. In some states they were almost identical to the birth return. In the interest of protecting privacy and against ID theft, most states have adopted a slimmed down version for any and all official purposes. Trust me, no one ever gets a copy of the original birth return filled out by the birth attendant. Not even attorneys or courts get that. Now, if you had an older birth certificate, and lost it, you could get a new copy by contacting the County Clerk where you were born, or the State Health Dept. I guarantee that you will not get an exact copy of the old version, but the newer, slimmed down version with an official seal.

Most states did not start keeping official vital records until the twentieth century. There are some, particulary in the Northeast, that began much earlier. These early records filled and cluttered county clerks storage units and were passed on to the State Health Dept., State Archives, County Archives, or Historical Societies. They were in turn microfilmed and made available to the public after 75-100 years (depends on state laws). Originals are stored in climate controlled vaults. I never heard of any state that destroyed originals. It's certainly possible, but I would be shocked if Hawaii did so without microfilming or digitally scanning them first.

Hope this helps clear up why it is totally ridiculous for birthers to ask for originals. Original what? Birth return? Ain't gonna happen. Locked away for 100 years. Original BC? They don't even have those old forms anymore. New BC forms, computer generated, certified by state seal. That is always the best you can get, unless someone still has their original, older version BC and is willing to share it.

Dreamer said...

O/T...
onething @ 11:21 :
Arnold Schwarzenegger is from AUSTRIA (just like Hitler was...), NOT from Germany!
I don't know why most Americans make that mistake. Germany and Austria are two different countries that have a common language (and a short common border)...

KaJo said...

Just for curiosity's sake, preston,
can this "conservative, out-there blogger" that you know extremely well actually ARTICULATE why he hates President Obama with a vengeance?

What did Obama ever do to him, that he seeks vengeance? Do you know?

Not to be all naive or anything, but is it the obvious? Racism?

This enquiring mind wants to know -- I like to find out what makes people tick, especially when they don't attempt to hide bigotry or prejudice.

Morgan said...

Hahaha Leah! I should put that as my avatar. Just to make the readers walk the line. ;-)

Bree Palin said...

Hmmm, what's even more enticing about Levi hanging out at the Monkey Bar in NYC Thursday night:
http://tinyurl.com/kvw8aw

Is that the Monkey Bar is owned by Graydon Carter, the editor of Vanity Fair, and his assistant personally handles all reservations. One does not just stroll in casually as a tourist from Alaska into the Monkey Bar.

Dinky P. said...

Amy 1: I believe alot of what you said is true. Even the people that do not like Palin are using her to make money. Just look at huffpost this past week. Not alot of media on Palin when the ugly stuff and dirty laundry started coming out this week front and center.

But front and center today about her picnic. It is hard to give up money even when you know you are promoting a liar. Money talks.

For Sarah she really has no other options, but to obey the Big Wigs now. Otherwise her dirty would be laid on the line and jail time instead of the white house would be her next home. But sooner or later the truth prevails.

That is why Trig's deception will continue until Sarah is not worth alot of money. That time will come we just have to be patient and keep the pressure on and eyes and ears open.

wayofpeace said...

AMY1, i agree wholly with your take.

i'd add that it's no coincidence that this FIRM 'advice' for her to step down was delivered JUST AS the other two religiously pimped-out, fresh-faced GOP candidates (ENSIGN & SANFORD) went down in flames over zipper problems.

The Editor said...

A couple of things:I just found out that a close friend has a nephew who lives in Wasilla. She promised me his e-mail address but warned that he doesn't say much about Palin as she is so vindictive. I'm hoping that some people will start opening up once she's out of power and influence in Alaska. See where her popularity has plummeted. As to Obama and the "Birthers," a couple of years ago, Repugs were talking about an amendment to change the "born in the USA" qualification for president to accommodate their rising star, Arnold Schwarznegger. Haven't heard much about that one lately. If that were to ever happen, Arnie would have alot of 'splainin' to do about his father, the Nazi sympathizer. These birthers are the same rabid types who support SP, Sam/Joe the non-plumber and the blowviating drug addict Rush Limbaugh. Hopefully, the MSM will get over its love affair with these losers.

Bree Palin said...

I also noticed in the photos AKpetmom put up on flickr of Bristol and Trig and Tripp at the Wasilla picnic Trig wasn't wearing his glasses . . .

bacci40 said...

obama's birth was a non issue during the campaign...the birthers started up then and the story died a quick death

it came back up now, because he and the dem congress are getting very close at disturbing the entire power structure of this country, if they can change how health care and the banking industry work

palin is status quo...that is why the story of her pregnancy is not getting any traction

and yes...the attacks on obama are all race based

it is so sad that we live in the 21st century and still cant get over the color of a man's skin

preston said...

Kajo, this person articulates his hatred continuously on his blog and in his articles. He would not admit to racism, I'm sure, but to me it's obvious. He made a big point of using Obama's middle name, in italics, during the election. I've heard him support displaying the Confederate flag and he will insist there is nothing racist about that. I'm sure the blogger thinks that he himself is the greatest of Americans. This person was raised to think all these things so it's probably the typical case of closed-minded people passing on their belief system to their kids and the cycle continues until some child or grandchild with integrity breaks it.

Windy City Woman said...

If Barack Obama's name were Barry O'Brien and his father had been a white man from the British Isles, the "birthers" wouldn't even bother trying. No one accused Spiro Agnew, who had immigrant parents, of not being an American. Lots of white Americans have immigrant parents, and no one questions their American-ness.

I would guess that someone higher up in the GOP knows the truth about Sarah and Trig. If she does try to run for President in 2012, and is seen as too serious a candidate, look for someone in the GOP to see to it that everyone knows about the birth lie.

NY tabloid chick said...

It's looking as if MSM is starting to dig now... Graydon Carter, of Vanity Fair allowed Levi, Butler and Jones to grace his hard-to-get-into restaurant, Monkey Bar. Something's up, yay! Check out gawker!

midnightcajun said...

There actually used to be a very good video on Youtube that did a great job of laying out the facts on Sarah's shapeshifting tummy and the ridiculousness of the wild ride. It didn't go viral. What seems to go viral is cute animals (not applicable in this case) or music and dancing--think the wedding party, United Breaks Guitars, the prisoners dancing Thriller.

So while I think a YouTube video is a great idea it would need to be 1) short and pithy 2) accompanied by a funny song (you can make up words to a preexisting tune as long as the tune is out of copyright--ie, Turkey in the Straw, and 3) sung by a very pretty young woman with a great voice, or by cute kids. Think the "I Feel Quitty" song, only sung by a pretty young thing about the birth.

On a side note, ron m wrote on the birthers, "Problems could arise where dual citizenship is argued or the father creates issues on citizenship, nothing has come forth to indicate such a scenario.
The father had opportunity to assert Obama's citizenship before he passed on and we have nothing on the record suggesting that was addressed one way or the other."

Citizenship rules have nothing to do with what the father or mother want--rules are rules. Again, in my daughter's case, we also had to get her a passport of the country she was born in because THEY considered her that nationality and refused to issue her a residence permit. The US Govt doesn't care about other countries' rules; they go by their own. (The poor kid has three passports) And Debbie, my other child ran into the same problem, despite the fact she was born in the USA.

wayofpeace said...

YEAH! for ALASKA BLOGGERS, today is your BASTILLE DAY: you fired the first salvos, which launched the beginning of the end of the wicked witch of the north!

she may yet try to surface but she is limping due to your persistent pounding.

passinthru said...

I hate that poor Mike Castle is in the middle of this. Here's a link to the local paper's coverage, including audio clips of this mentally unwell woman calling in to the radio.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20090726/NEWS02/907260367/1006/NEWS

It's called "Through the looking glass" if the link doesn't go direct.

That explains the birther lady in the video. What explains Dobbs and his ilk is more nasty, I'm afraid.

Ivyfree said...

"a close friend has a nephew who lives in Wasilla. She promised me his e-mail address but warned that he doesn't say much about Palin as she is so vindictive."

You know, this is probably irrelevant, and I've remarked on Palin's well-attested vindictiveness myself in the past, but it just now reminded me of "In Broad Daylight: A Murder in Skidmore, Missouri" by Harry Maclean. Guy was a criminal jerk, anyone who testified against him was retaliated against- at one point one of the testifying witnesses was shot, but the guy just got some jail time as the victim wasn't killed- and eventually, the perpetrator was surrounded by townsfolk, shot to death in broad daylight in the middle of town in his pickup truck with his girlfriend sitting right next to him. Body laid there with the engine running for hours. Nobody reported it.

Eventually the FBI investigated, and even though the girlfriend, who was uninjured, named some names, the people in the crowd (about 60 of them) said they were just standing there, heard shots, and dived for the ground without seeing anybody shooting. They were very consistent.

It's a chilling story of what can happen when criminals aren't pursued by the justice system. Eventually, the town became tired of being afraid of the guy.

No way am I advocating such behavior. I'm just pointing out that quite aside from morality and ethics, which Sarah talks about but wouldn't recognize if they bitchslapped her upside the head with a pair of skates, there's a real-life downside to criminal behavior, and surrounding oneself with people of questionable morality.

Not smart, our Sarah. Not smart at all.

Jen said...

SP thanked Tripp before Trig and then got all shaken up. Hmmm.... odd!

Jennifer

vera city said...

I have just finished watching Palin's good-bye salad from the position of governor. Over at Mudflats, many of the commentators mentioned how much she was using her hands. Since most of you have also watched it and it is still fresh in your minds, I will turn to Robert Hare who advises us, when we think that we are dealing with someone high on the Psychopathy Checklist, to "watch their hands." Hare tells us:

"Most language-related hand gestures convey no information or meaning to the listener. 'Empty' hand gestures called beats are small, rapid movements that occur only during speech or pauses in speech but are not part of the 'story line.' Like other gestures and body movements, they are often part of the 'show' the speaker puts on .... But beats occur for other reasons as well. For example, many people make these hand gestures while talking on the telephone. The listener can't see these gestures, so why does the speaker make them?

"The answer may be related to evidence that the brain centres that control speech also control the hand gestures made during speech. In some unknown way - perhaps by increasing overall activity in these centres - beats seem to facilitate speech: they help us put our thoughts and feelings into words.......In some cases, a high rate of beat gestures appear to reflect difficulty in converting thoughts and feelings into speech.

"Beats may also tell us something about the size of the 'thought units,' or mental packages, that underlie speech. A thought unit can vary from from something small, simple, and isolated - a single idea or word, a phrase, a sentence - to something larger and more complex - groups of ideas, sentences, or complete story lines. The ideas, words, phrases, and sentences that comprise large thought units are likely to be well integrated, tied together in some meaningful, consistent, or logical fashion to form a script. Beats appear to 'mark off' these thought units: The greater the number of beats, the smaller the units.

"Recent evidence suggests that psychopaths use more beats than do normal people, particularly when they talk about things generally considered emotional - for example, describing the way they feel about family members or other 'loved ones.' We might infer two things from this evidence:

" - Like a tourist using high-school French to ask directions in Paris, psychopaths have trouble putting into words emotional ideas because they are vague and poorly understood. In this sense, emotion is like a second language to the psychopath.

" - Psychopaths' thoughts and ideas are organized into rather small mental packages and readily moved around. This can be a distinct advantage when it comes to lying. As psychologist Paul Ekman pointed out, skilled liars are able to break down ideas, concepts, and language into basic components and then recombine them in a variety of ways, almost as if they were playing Scrabble. But in doing so, the psychopath endangers his overall script; it may lose its unifying structure or become less coherent and integrated than if he was dealing in large thought units."

Hmmm...seems to describe the video I just watched with the frequent, rapid hand movements made by Sarah Palin.

Joe Christmas, you asked me several good questions in the last post and I will try to get to them. I have a deadline for the end of the month, so I will pick up where I can.

Barbara Japlan said...

Two comments:

1) Re. birth certificates: My brother recently applied for a new passport. He had lost his old one, so had to get a birth certificate from Cook County, Illinois where he was born. No problem here. However, his first name was misspelled on the original certificate, so my parents had to get an amendment. That document has been lost. Gone, in the ether, no one knows where. Fortunately the State Dept. accepts his driver's license, etc. for the correct spelling. So documents do vanish.

2) Re. dual citizenship. My dad retired to Israel. After living there a certain number of years he was entitled to Israeli citizenship. However, if he applied for such citizenship (at that time - I believe the rules have since changed), he ran a chance of losing his U.S. citizenship. If he did nothing and Israeli citizenship were conferred on him automatically, there would be no problem. So that's what he did. From then on he was able to vote in both U.S. and Israeli elections. As far as I know, he would also still have been able to run for President of the U.S.

Eileen said...

g2009you tube video:you know the team that put out the paris hilton for prez video when her name was dragged by mccain into campaign to smear obama as a mere celebrity? And then there is the team that just put out the obama as superman style animation video. Pros.

So is there a couple pros with the wit and insight who have the kahunas to produce and upload a you tube video if they were given the short and dirty top ten not-preg vs. gutsy belly photos, timeline, facts and characters involved in the fastest gestation in human history and wild ride to delivery?
They could be given the facts from this source but will get the blow-back as well just as Andrew did etc. Billboard to publicize video depending on where x-GINO settles or the most strategic.
I'd like some street-wise style stickers of somephoto,sitethatfolks would see and "get it", question her story or to aggravate the palinfanactics. About size of the 4 x 4" square obama stickers or I voted today (alaska flag stars) sticker. I'd slap them up and around wherever-like the insopid smiley face stickers. Snazzy slogan a must.Use them for avatars, on mailings like V.Nam era stickers to turn the mail black in protest.For posters later. Free marketing.

wayofpeace said...

this article confirms and explains WHY the GOP higher ups pushed her off the bus.

Republican: Palin is another Huckabee / From CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) – It looks like Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin may have one less fan.

On the same day that Palin is set to transfer power to her lieutenant governor, Republican strategist Alex Castellanos said her prospects for national office looked grim.

“’I’ve been a supporter of Sarah Palin — at times,” Castellanos said Sunday on CNN’s State of the Union. “She gave the McCain campaign its best two weeks. But, you know, if we’re going to be critical of Democrats when they shirk their responsibilities, we have do the same within our own house. She abandoned her state in the middle of a term.”

On the national political stage, Castellanos, who worked as a political consultant for Mitt Romney's 2008 presidential bid, likened Palin to former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee. The Arkansas Republican’s long shot bid for the White House in the last election cycle gained traction when he pulled out a surprise win in Iowa’s Republican caucus but then Huckabee lost steam when he could not follow through with wins in other key primaries.

“We’re going to have a division in the Right in the Republican Party,” Castellanos told CNN Chief National Correspondent John King, “We now have two Mike Huckabees – people who have a powerful force in the party but can’t get out of the party in a general election and win.”

vera city said...

Mudflats has just put out a transcript of Sarah Palin's farewell address. The reading is a pretty tough slog, according to the comments, because of the loose grammar, tangential connections, and lack of logic. Perhaps it would be enlightening to do a comparison. Once again we turn to Dr. Hare:

"It now appears that the communications of psychopaths sometimes are subtly odd and part of a general tendency to 'go off track.' That is, they frequently change topics, go off on irrelevant tangents, and fail to connect phrases and sentences in a straightforward manner. The story line, though somewhat disjointed, may seem acceptable to the casual listener. For example, one of our male psychopaths, asked by a female interviewer to describe an intense emotional event, responded as follows:

"'Well, that's a tough one. So many to think about. I remember once - uh - I went through this red light and there was no traffic, right? So what's the big deal? this cop started to hassle me for no reason, and he really pissed me off. I didn't really go through the red light. It was probably only yellow ... so what was his - uh - point? the trouble with cops is they are - most are on a power trip. They act macho, right? I'm not really into macho. I'm more of a lover. What do you think? I mean, if I wasn't in prison ... say we meet at a party - uh - and I asked you out, and, I'll bet you'd say yes, right?'

"This narrative was accompanied by expansive hand movements and exaggerated facial expressions - a dramatic display that blinded the interviewer to what was happening. however,the videotape of the interview clearly revealed to everyone - including our embarrassed interviewer - that the man not only had gone off track but had trapped her in a flirtatious exchange.

"Psychopaths are notorious for not answering the question posed to them or for answering in a way that seems unresponsive to the question. For example, one psychopath in our research, asked if his moods went up and down, replied, 'Uh - up and down? - well, you know - some people say they are always nervous but sometimes they seem pretty calm. I guess their moods go up and down. I remember once - uh - I was feeling low and - my buddy came over and we watched the game on TV and - uh - we had a bet on and he won - and I felt pretty shitty.'

"Psychopaths also sometimes make it difficult for their listeners to understand parts of their narrative. 'I met these guys in a bar. One guy was a dealer and the other was a pimp. They started to hassle me and I punched him out,' said one of our psychopaths. but was it the dealer or the pimp who was 'punched out'?

"Of course, minor breakdowns in communications are not uncommon in normal people; in many cases they represent little more then carelessness or a momentary lapse in concentration. but in psychopaths the breakdowns are more frequent, more serious, and possibly indicative of an underlying condition in which the organization of mental activity - but not its content - is defective. It is how they string together words and sentences together, not what they actually say, that suggests abnormality."

This showed up, not just yesterday and in the quitter stream of consciousness she spewed out on July 3, but also in the interviews she did while running as VP. "In what way, Charlie?" was her response to straight forward questions. It has also been the way she has talked about Trig's birth and failed to respond to enquiries about it.

Yet more on language to come.

midnightcajun said...

The Editor said, "a close friend has a nephew who lives in Wasilla. She promised me his e-mail address but warned that he doesn't say much about Palin as she is so vindictive."

We hear this all the time. So what I'd like to know is, what has she actually done to people? Fired them, yes, when she was in a position to do so. But surely not everyone in Wasilla works for the city or the state. Are they physically afraid? As in, she'll slash your tires, shoot your dog, burn down your house?

I found it very disturbing that the anti-Sarah faction in Alaska who went to the farewell picnics were all so intimidated by the sight of her supporters walking around draped in guns that they left their cute signs in their cars. So much for Sarah's military out there fightin' for our freedom of speech. Where's that darn military when we need them?

Punkinbugg said...

I don't think Alaska should have allowed her to have those last 3 picnics. They coulda said, "Thanks, but no thanks QUITTER, we'll let Sean and HIS family serve up the hot dogs and hamburgers!"

Letting her quit at 2pm on July 26th allowed her to 3 opportunities spew rhetoric, blame the media for her problems, and grab headlines.

With all the references to the U.S. Military, I fully expected her to break into that great song "Motherhood" from "Hello Dolly":

I stand for Motherhood
America
and a hot lunch for Orphans!
Take off your hat, sir!
There's a tear-stained eagle passing..."

Pseudo-Patriotism was funny then, and just a little sad now. Her son is serving overseas, and she just can't help WRAPPING herself in the flag and squeezing the last drop of sympathy out of her minions.

Womentality said...

I'm not going to go into the Obama thing because it's absolutely ridiculous and nothing more than an act of racism. It's beyond stupidity to believe the man made it this far without evey being vetted by an opponent or foe.

But I've been wanting to mention this to you Audrey and to others who may not have considered this theory. You may have well already discussed it here or entertained the same thought, but I have this feeling I can't shake that Trigg is really Todd's baby but not Sarah's or Bristol's.

I know there is proof that Bristol changed schools, fell off the radar, etc. during the time someone was pregnant, but I noted in the July 3rd speech something that made me wonder if Todd had an extramarital affair & once the child was born, both Sarah and Todd were forced to take the child by the other couple, whether by both or just an angry husband.

What gave me that feeling is that when she made this statement during that July 3rd speech when she said this....And what a child can offer to set priorities right, know that time is precious. The world needs more Trigs, not fewer.
......She turned to look at Todd and if I remember correctly she did a double take look in his direction when making that statement. Now of course as parents of Trig she could just be innocently looking at the father of her child, but something leaves me feeling he's more tied to Trig than she is (and not just b/c he seems to spend more time with him). I think it was more about the way she looked at Todd.

In the picture of Sarah on July 3rd the amount of stress in Todd's face is hard to miss. He looks not only confused but worried. Can't find it right now but maybe someone else can. They've already removed everything Sarah from the state site so the pic is gone too.

Craig said...

You answer your own question regarding why Sarah doesn't supply the Certificate. You say things like still "not absolute proof" and "potentially" verify at least the date of birth. In other words, its understood by the Palin camp that such a disclosure will NOT convince most of the doubters of anything (just as it is argued about the Obama birthers). Its just a tainted document, if it backs Sarah up.

The very public break from the Johnston's has now come and gone, and now the sudden resignation notice has come and gone. Still no one has broken the alleged silence of what would easily be the biggest political scandal of the year (topping some big ones so far).

She is just a private citizen now. No real power over the masses to speak of. Her political base of popularity is shrinking even more into just the fervant believers. She'll remain a very public figure of course, with her speeches and appearances and books and possible radio/tv opportunities.

But the detractors are just as large in number and just as fervant in their desire to see her laid to waste. How much longer will they fear to leak/print the "truth"? At what point in the future does the conspiracy move from being characterized as a reluctance to devulge, to simply a story with no real substance?

If she is lying, she is the most recklessly ballsy poker-face player in history!!! With all her continued quotes about the craziness of stories about her and her family, and media lies, she is not only doubling-down that her alleged lie will never surface, but she has tripled-down, quadrupled-down, etc.

She is flat-out begging even one person who may have any knowledge that would contradict even a portion of her fantastic, mind-blowing tale, to come out and speak (even confidentially)!!!

I haven't posted here for a while because there hasn't really been anything more for me to say or comment on, that I haven't said before.

I just wonder sometimes when a lack of hard evidence (not coincidences or conjecture or speculative beliefs) will lead to a tipping point in which the odds of various scenarios being true will be reassessed?

mel said...

Craig: "You answer your own question regarding why Sarah doesn't supply the Certificate. You say things like still "not absolute proof" and "potentially" verify at least the date of birth. In other words, its understood by the Palin camp that such a disclosure will NOT convince most of the doubters of anything (just as it is argued about the Obama birthers). Its just a tainted document, if it backs Sarah up."

Just wondering how you know what's "understood by the Palin camp" about a b.c. I've never heard anyone from her "camp" say anything at all about their thinking on it. If I were them I'd have produced a b.c long ago. And I'm not necessarily one who would dismiss it if it backed SP up. But I am one who would like to see it.